USF vs OKW

Ok my fellow balance specialists.

Tell me how to exactly win vs OKW as USF unless you smash him in the first 5 minutes.

Playing against med truck OKW is a nightmare. Youre trying to do fancy tactics, smokes, combined arms, vehicles and everything....and all he does is throwing cheap schreck volks at you, later covered by Obers and a Panther. And a luchs if youre unlucky.

It really isnt that much of a problem when playing Soviets, as you have plenty of nasty things in your arsenal to do to the OKW scumbag.

Honestly, i find OKW incredibly easy to play myself. In 1v1 alone im sitting at +12 streak. The last win was vs ironroman.

And every single time i try to make USF work, it doesnt work. I run into med truck infantry spam play, and now matter how many volks i kill, 3 new will come. Its really frustrating.

Strats pls

Unless as you've said, you've won early then your only possibility is to play this
Show Spoiler
and take it up your rear.

USF got nothing that would overcome vet5 system, well microed kubel and non suicidal panthers.

In The End everything you try to do against OKW as USF will leave you feeling Numb and Faint. i think i've found Somewhere I Belong by simply playing with SOV.

i am With You on this one Katitof. Nobody's Listening at Relic and i have Given Up trying to Break The Habit of beating OKW lategame with USF. it is simply Easier to Run and find a Place For My Head.


EDIT: Can't believe I wrote that I am so bored! Seriously though, I havnt played much in the past month and when I do play its either as SOV or OST. No idea how this MU is panning out but I always found it heavily swayed by the map. Some spawn positions are game over for USF or OKW, that if you make a mistake in the first 5mins it can be game over. If I bother playing as USF again I'll give better advice!

And every single time i try to make USF work, it doesnt work. I run into med truck infantry spam play, and now matter how many volks i kill, 3 new will come. Its really frustrating.

Strats pls

I have the same feeling in 2vs2. It´s so sad.

If I won't win with quick Sherman, it's gg.
The most scary units for me is Jadgpanzer - just veto (as OKW) wide and open maps like Langreska.

I can outrange Panther with Jackson but I can do a pudding vs Jadgpanzer.
Can't flank with Jackson (agasint decent opponent), maybe smhasing with Shermans but again, should I focus on Jadg and let Volks to kill my Shermans? It's even better when Jadgpanzer is covered with Pak43

I even tried Greyhound and canister spam. 2 Greyhounds, (21 and 36 kills in 1v1) still tons of infantry to cap and fight.
______
@UP
Spawning really matters. Bottom/south spawn on Way to Kharkov but on the further spot - near the right map edge is damn problematic if you want to defend you cut off cause of longer retreat way.
But this affects all excpet OKW which can build T4 near fuel/cut off and give a garden about covering it

Ok my fellow balance specialists.

Tell me how to exactly win vs OKW as USF unless you smash him in the first 5 minutes.

Disclaimer: This is a comment of a middling player.

1. You can't if your oponent is same skill level or higher skill level;
2. You can't, if you lose entire squad/squads in early game;
2. If point 1. and 2 is not true, you have a fair chance. Personaly, I do this: I invest as much as enemy allows me into things that can transform a rifle blob in something that counts: grenades, BARS. Because this things require fuel, I go directly to captain and next I build asap a AT gun in order that these two units (USF AT and captain) along with some lucky AT rifel nades counter that PZII or Puma or, god forbid, an AA Ht. Usualy I go paras doctrine (at least pathfinders and paras are worthing) and later I have the P47. But if you are good at micro, armor doctrine may be a verry annoying choice for your enemy. Sherman buldozer is quite thick and you have the M10 to. 1 M10 values nothing but build more than 2 and things change. You can put aside T4, just spam buldozers and M10s.

As australian magic said : go for fast sherman and spam like hell

If you want to "win" as USF then this is how you do it.


Veto minsk, kharkov at all costs. Then veto either crossing or langres.

Pick airborne 100% of the time. No strategic decisions there. No thinking at all. Just do it. And do it fast if you dont want to lose.

Do this build order every. single. game. No matter what map or even if you are playing ostheer. This is the best build order and it works no matter what.


3 rifles > m20 > fuel cache (optional) > airborne > M4A3 sherman.

In the early game, blob hard and blob fast. When you win the engagement, cap.

Getting the m20 at around the 4:30- 5:00 mark is absolutely nessecarry for any USF player. If you see mechanized regiment HQ, plant the m20 mines quickly and plant more than one.

As soon as you hit 3CP immeadiatelly purchase a paratrooper squad. You will pretty much always want to do this. If you find yourself floating a bunch of MP before the 3CP mark consider a fuel cache. Now you want to get the sherman ASAP. No matter what, the sherman is always the right choice. Even though some people will say the M8A1 is OP for some strange reason, in 1V1 the sherman is ALMOST ALWAYS THE BETTER CHOICE. Your sherman should come out at 10-11 minutes. If it doesn't you fucked something up, and you should not fuck things up when playing USF vs OKW. Once the sherman comes out, DO everything to push the OKW player off the map. You give zero fucks about mines because if you do run over a mine, hop out and repair the tank in 1 second. Squish the volksgrenadiers, wipe them, and know no fear because he will have no panther until 17-18 minutes. Wipe squads left and right. The 10-15 minute mark is the time you WIN vs OKW. If something happens to your sherman and you lose it somehow to volk shrecks or a puma, THAT is very bad. This should never happen.

After you get your sherman, this is where you need to make some decisions. You definately want to get an ambulance. And you definately will need BARs, however only buy them if you are floating alot of munitions. If you aren't save for P-47 which is very important.

Alternitavely, you can get more than 1 paratrooper squad and get 2-3 and blob them with LMGs or just use thompsons. Consider air dropping the AT gun sometimes.

Look at your fuel income and fuel reserves at around the 16:30 mark if you haven't won yet.

Do you have fuel for both a sherman and a jackson? Buy 1 more sherman and a jackson.
Do you not have fuel for both a sherman and a jackson? Buy the jackson, you will need it againts the panther.

And generally from this point just do whatever you can. M4A3 shermans + jacksons + p-47s + paratroopers + BAR rifles is your late game mix. Micro these units effectivelly and you can win.


Also, no matter what the balance experts will say, i prefer thompson paratroopers over LMG paras. Keep in mind that their tactical assault is very useful, just don't use it for tactical assaults. Use the ability for chasing down retreating squads that retreat through your paratroopers, and stand still.

If you are playing againts ostheer, consider yourself lucky. Its much easier to beat ostheer , and this strat also works great vs ostheer.

I've managed to win a late game 1v1 vs OKW where he had the fuel and general edge through the game because I was retarded enough and went with cap tier even though I spotted the medic truck, the guy was 600-something rated with okw, all in all, I feel that if the jackson penetrated reliabily and the OKW flak HQ had less range it could become a rather balanced MU (considering that double bars and m1a1 paras perform very good vs fashj and obers).

Also I wouldn't go sherman vs okw, unless you are planning on spamming them, the scott into jacksons is a much better choice especially because shreck volks blob are a thing, and then play heavily with infantry, you want to invest your ammo in bars and then stock them up late game for the p47 if you want airborne.

You could try going double I&R pathfinders and just insta blowing up the flak truck to stop t4 tech. Or just go mechanized and try to take out the truck quickly with your first sherman and 1 arty barrage preventing the panther.

Alternatively going for something like an early AA HT is viable vs a med truck strat. As it costs the same MP as an m20 but will give you much better map control since you supress them after like 1 second and they basically have to retreat if you have any other units around. You can just get some bazookas if your afraid of an early luchs. It can be hard if you allow their flak truck sets up in a way stopping you from harassing/cutting them off though since you invest alot earlier on, but OKW with 1 mabye 2 shreks vs an AA Ht will have a really hard time.

Disclaimer: This is a comment of a middling player.

1. You can't if your oponent is same skill level or higher skill level;
2. You can't, if you lose entire squad/squads in early game;
2. If point 1. and 2 is not true, you have a fair chance. Personaly, I do this: I invest as much as enemy allows me into things that can transform a rifle blob in something that counts: grenades, BARS. Because this things require fuel, I go directly to captain and next I build asap a AT gun in order that these two units (USF AT and captain) along with some lucky AT rifel nades counter that PZII or Puma or, god forbid, an AA Ht. Usualy I go paras doctrine (at least pathfinders and paras are worthing) and later I have the P47. But if you are good at micro, armor doctrine may be a verry annoying choice for your enemy. Sherman buldozer is quite thick and you have the M10 to. 1 M10 values nothing but build more than 2 and things change. You can put aside T4, just spam buldozers and M10s.

Spamming a fuel unit is a really tough idea in 1vs1. Moreover when we talking about a balance match.
Imo, for what it is, the M10 comes too late, not in term of fuel but CPs, having it 1 or 2 CP would make the commander more interesting.

Now the matchup is broken, one faction has all the tools at the right moment at the right price to overcome the opposite faction. And if Volks spam isn't downgraded or punished more severly, nothing can really change.

3 rifle + 2 RE for cap the map

Lieutnant

M20

Para thompson

Sherman, sherman, sherman

After it's depend of your tactic choice, micro, mouvement, etc

you need to take a guhe control map first 10 minut, after shermans for finish him.

If panther, make 1-2 at-guns and ofc shermans because it's your only counter to obers.

And spam P-47 after

But if you play good, you win before panther.

Spamming a fuel unit is a really tough idea in 1vs1. Moreover when we talking about a balance match.
Imo, for what it is, the M10 comes too late, not in term of fuel but CPs, having it 1 or 2 CP would make the commander more interesting.

Now the matchup is broken, one faction has all the tools at the right moment at the right price to overcome the opposite faction. And if Volks spam isn't downgraded or punished more severly, nothing can really change.

So I see many people are suggesting shermanns. I'm actualy glad someone started a thread like this one, more strategy discussing and less whining. I allways thought until now that scott + jackson is better than spaming shermanns but who knows, maybe i should give it a try with shermanns....

I'm not playing 1sv1 or 2vs2 anymore as USF (at least until next patch). But in 4vs4, I'm always going scott first + jackson.

The problem with the sherman is
1- the overconfidence it gives sometime.
2- very vulnerable to OKW Puma. Not talking to have it destroyed (unless you're sleeping)but it force you to withdraw it too often. The puma probably need a pen decrease vs sherman (Imo ).
3- you need more micro than the scott not keep it alive.

Scott gives you
1- good AI potential and from far enough to weaker a blob before it comes at their fire range.
2- Can damage the Puma at max range or from behind a building.
3- vet1 smoke is better than Sherman smoke
4- smoke shot is better than Sherman smoke and actually can neutralize an ATgun or MG for your rifles to attack. It is better in combo with other players but it works great!
5- it is cheaper, only 80 fuel so your jackson come faster, since a sherman isn't enough vs tanks, better to go scott.

But it is true that in 4vs4, I usually let my random mates going AT and focus myself on killing those blobs...

IMO sherman has much better shock effect. it can push volks around and can chase down squads much better than a scott can. I see a scott as a attrition weapon and is better if the game is past the 15 min mark. before that you must not stall which will allow him to get a panther.
THe thing about sherman smoke is that it must be used offensively. Scout with a squad and drop the smoke on the volks blob or in the house where the raketen is. Drive in and squish everything.

For the rest what burts said is correct. in 2v2 infantry is good too. rest is crap.
On rails and minsk a scott is a better choice than a sherman but these maps are really bad for us anyway and you will most likely lose here

P47. That is all

Seriously, you only chance is to disable their heavies and call in P47. Before that, spam shermans. Don't lose them, you can even surprise him by calling in 2 shermans and then attacking from 2 positions. Make good use of those M20 mines.

Pray to RNG Jesus, and regular Jesus while you are at it to win.

Ruin them in the first five minutes because you have better main line infantry and far better mid game. If you let them get a KT you messed up extremely hard somewhere.

Also learn how to uses Scotts, it's a squad wiping machine.

Nah, sherman is better than scott.

Scott give the chance to okw to push your lines

The sherman is a POS that will die to a well microed gang of volk shreks every time. I would much rather have something doing consistent squad wipes like a Scott rather than something that is basically useless as AT, and it's AI ability is extremely RNG based.