Meta Trend Drop Trend

Thought I'd make a thread on two things I've noticed over the past three days. played about 6 1v1s, 8-10 4v4s 4 3v3s

1. I've noticed that for some reason when in a 3v3 or 4v4 and it is all ost players for axis their tends to be one person who says something about how all ost is a fail and not going to play a 20 min loss match. Of course when he drops an AI takes over and then it really does become a much harder to win fight. This happened about 5 times in the 4v4 and 3 times in the 3v3.


2. Allied Meta seems to have either been figured out, most allied teams are pre-made, or my team consistently sucks. More than likely a mix of a figured out meta and a few team mates who are still trying to improve. The usual topic of discussion is Axis late game is superior in every way to Allied and at that poit it takes a miracle for them to win. I've been observing a picture that doesn't exactly match that. Granted the last 4 games I played there was not a single KT used, panthers and a few tiger I's were the main stay, but the m4c's, b4's, m36's, su-85's, and a few kv's. I found it to be quite potent. There was never a game where we just ran throguh our opponents as it is to be expected by the current trend of open threads.

It might be the SU was propping up the USF in these matches since now looking at it the most issue came from the SU call-ins/doc. Now the issue with this is exactly what proceeds this sentence, the call-in. You may say those string of matches were not the norm but it occurred nonetheless. The call-in is strong but negates the need or desire for building tech. Other than the ele. JT, and tiger (I did not include tiger ace as I only saw one once and i directly attribute it to my allies side falling cause of the mechanics of calling in and having one) axis tends to not rely on docs/calll-ins to carry them. in fact I would argue depending on a doc/call-in solely right now in the way the SU does it as Axis is a good way to lose a match.


Bottom line Allies are not necessarily in the hole as bad as claims are and the call-in meta..should be looked at it.

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This topic has been discussed to death.

General: call ins > tech
1v1:
OH suffers against USF, 50-50 against SU. Play into heavy gren>LMG>Tiger.
USF walks over OH early-mid but might struggle lategame
OKW + SU fine.

2v2: depends on map, factions, etc. 2xOH or 2x USf is pretty "weak". Mix or double SU or OKW is strong.

3v3+: win early on as allies or lose on the lategame against the Axis heavies/shreck blob

In big games allies trump card is katyusha/b4 and is-2.These combiend with ameri blob and jackson support can crush any axis defense.

Problem will arise if B-4 is missing with is-2.Then u can't take out pak43 which is a beast in large teamgames and will turn is-2s into scrap metal quickly at any advance.
B-4 plus is-2 is most feared combo.Add an american player with easy eights +blob or jacksons plus blob and its quite strong.Easy eight plus blob is better than jackson plus blob which is vulnerable to shreck blobs.
Pak43 imo is must for axis in large teamgames recently due to is-2 spam.Complement with panthers for katyusha raiding and support.KT/tiger bonus.Alternatively tiger plus pak 43 is very strong.Axis main problem is is-2 and soviet artillery.American infantry on its own can't do much lategame,2 things to watch out for - easy eight stacks ,american para blobs supporting sov armor with jackson support.

Axis have 3 dangerpoints in the game in 4 vs 4s from my experience.First one player got double teamed/plays poorly loses multiple units and is unable to support his side for a while.If this happens badly soviets will put maxims up to secure area and lay mines.Then allies will try to gang up on one OKW truck ,ameri blob plus shocks/maxim/zis.If they succeed in killing medic truck and bulk of its defending units gg early under 10 minutes.Max 15 mins.

2nd dangerpoint is around 8-10 minute mark.Axis infantry beginning to slowly push back ,but have built too little AT.Suddenly t-34/aa truck/sherman comes out and supported by allied infantry makes axis lose both fuels.Axis can come back if medium armor is enroute and isn't thrown blindly as such that first pz4 loses to 1st t-34,coz then 2nd pz 4 will face 2.But more commonly,Unfortunately due to lack of co-ordination often axis players both OKW and ost will rely on volks/pzgren shrecks and paks staying t2.If this happens axis gets swarmed my medium and light armor supported by blobs/maxims.(one sov will get a katyusha soon after if u stay t2/okw blobs attempting counterattack).This 2nd failure most common when too many axis players stay t2,volks blob etc and 1 soviet player went soviet industry for t-34 spam.Game over 20-25 mins.

Third axis danger is from is-2s.Is-2 and jacksons build up a wall of steel near the VPs slowly ticking away with allied infantry waiting closeby.Superior soviet arty continues to pound from back.Axis has little artillery to counter before u can have multiple stukas ,very risky when is 2 out.Here usually VP loss for axis,unable to breakthrough..unable to take out artillery or kill is-2s .usually leads to blind armor charges in desperation to get VP by axis,jackson/is-2 /zis will eat up.Here pak43 can turn game,if behind building katyusha useless.Lategame allied VP victory.

If u manage to avoid these 3 scenarios,axis should win unless noob play.

In big games allies trump card is katyusha/b4 and is-2.These combiend with ameri blob and jackson support can crush any axis defense.

No, just no

If you are playing in low ranked games. that might work.

But 90% of the time. if me and my arranged team can set up a defense. Its GG. and vise versa

No, just no

If you are playing in low ranked games. that might work.

But 90% of the time. if me and my arranged team can set up a defense. Its GG. and vise versa

Not talking abt arranged teams,Casual non-arranged.I am not 4 vs 4 expert but i play 1 or 2 casual games often.B-4/katyusha and is-2 is very strong combo if backed by american blob plus jackson/e8.Arranged 8 man team games are far and few in between,and against unarranged opponent no fun.

Gee, I wish I could get onto some of these Allies teams you speak of.

Not talking abt arranged teams,Casual non-arranged.I am not 4 vs 4 expert but i play 1 or 2 casual games often.B-4/katyusha and is-2 is very strong combo if backed by american blob plus jackson/e8.Arranged 8 man team games are far and few in between,and against unarranged opponent no fun.

Stuka followed with shrek/ober/pak wall/lmg grens/tiger/panther

Is far more effective.

Casual 4v4 give axis the win almost guaranteed

I only play Axis in 3v3 / 4v4 now, too frustrating playing allies when the matchmaker isn't kind to you. Generally as axis its quite easy to carry your team to a victory, especially if you can camp long enough until late game, where superior armour will give you the win. Even Ostheer is strong in 3v3 / 4v4 despite what some people would have you believe. Pretty sad state of affairs when you realize the game is that way (My 21:1 as OKW in 4v4 support this )

3v3+ has been in axis favour since launch. don't think there was a single point in the game's history when this wasn't true.

JS-2 and ISU-152 in 3v3,4v4 is far more potent doctrine than any other soviet doctrine, the win rate in 3v3AT and 4v4AT as allied is just as high as the Aixs side, it's all about coordination and skill now. ppl should give JS-2 and ISU-152 a try in 3v3 4v4.

I find it much, much easier to carry as USF than SU in my random 3s. The HE Sherman is the key for dealing with the all you can blob buffet meta, and P47s make the USF late game more than viable. Honestly anyone saying that USF is weak just isn't playing them right imo.

I can't figure out if Soviets just suck nards or if I'm just freaking terrible with them. Most likely the latter.

I've been tearing it up with bawstruppen as Ostheer lately.

I only play OKW when I'm piss drunk and can't play another faction.

Stuka followed with shrek/ober/pak wall/lmg grens/tiger/panther

Is far more effective.

Casual 4v4 give axis the win almost guaranteed

almost guaranteed? maybe we are playing on different servers or ELO. The 4v4 allied teams I face are either a steam roll (not often) or a actual fight on the edge. Also if it comes to clearing/damaging a area that isn't too concentrated in a lien or a single spot the katy can oust the stuka in terms of area coverage.

Also no one has commented on point number one.

The most success ive had with usf has been going all USF then go airborne.

Shermans plus airborne will handle all axis infantry

Spam muni caches. Then RIP ALL axis armor

With sov. Get t4 as fast ass possible. Keep the pressure up with katy

wait for call-ins

As wehr. Support the OKW players with luft. and support weapons

Wait for call-ins

As OKW. agressive med truck. While other go t2. Get early flack halftrack on cutoffs

get as many shreks as possible.

Get t4- rush panther if its close. While others get stuka

camp+blob= GG

I'd like to see casters take arranged team 4v4 more seriously. Yeah it's chaotic and spammy, but focusing on player positioning and unit composition, the overall flow of a 4v4 can be pretty cool.

Most peoples' experience of the random ladder is that Axis have a huge advantage. It might be true, but keep in mind that 90% of the time it's caused by matchmaking. People are quick to read into these games that were lopsided to begin with.

Like others pointed out Allies have some powerful options available with a good team. I don't think it's really well known how this stacks up against a good Axis arranged team. Top arranged teams on both sides generally hammer randoms, while the 4v4 games currently happening between randoms are meaningless since the matchmaking is deciding the outcome.

^ I love 4 v 4 lumpy, but casting them is difficult. I've seen the top casters try it, to their credit, but as a viewing experience it isn't as cool to watch as a 2 v 2 (my favourite game to watch, for some reason).

Axis wins almost all the 4 v 4 non arranged game. Yes, Allies can be devastating and fun if you play with your clan and arranged team. This is the ONLY way I have seen to win playing Allies in 4 v 4, random arranged teams is just terrible for the Allies.

I find it much, much easier to carry as USF than SU in my random 3s. The HE Sherman is the key for dealing with the all you can blob buffet meta, and P47s make the USF late game more than viable. Honestly anyone saying that USF is weak just isn't playing them right imo.


I can't figure out if Soviets just suck nards or if I'm just freaking terrible with them. Most likely the latter.

I've been tearing it up with bawstruppen as Ostheer lately.

I only play OKW when I'm piss drunk and can't play another faction.

it's not that people don't know how to play it. A lot of the USF core units don't worm the way they should such as the Jackson which gets stuck on everything and pens 2/8 shots fired at a panther. The rifles have a high cost to them and most units like the 50 cal and pack howitzer simply aren't viable.

The shriek blobs with bit is a problem even in large games and tends to kill everything unless it is protected by an is2 or a vet 3 paratrooper blob