This unit blobbing has become a favorite due to how cost-efficient and brutal it is.
Its LMg has solid DPS ,u can get thompsons or bazookas and fires on the move.
Has 6 men,a grenade and above all just 28 reinforce cost- less than a grenadier.
Why does an elite infantry cost less than basic infantry?
Paratrooper reinforcement cost
29 Jan 2015, 08:45 AM
#1
Posts: 1705
29 Jan 2015, 09:02 AM
#2
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Working as intended kappa.
29 Jan 2015, 09:43 AM
#3
Posts: 1705
29 Jan 2015, 09:53 AM
#4
Posts: 2779
Ask 10 Allies (only / biased) players on this forum, 10 of 10 would tell you, para is NOT elite infantry. lol Although they are Obers in US uniform.
29 Jan 2015, 10:01 AM
#5
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Why does an elite infantry cost less than basic infantry?
I don't know the actual stats. But it is perfectly reasonable for paratroopers to be cheaper per model than grenadiers if an individual paratrooper model is inferior to a single grenadier model.
But I do agree that Paratroopers are ridiculous. I don't know who's idea it was to make Para and Ober LMGs fire on the move, but it was a pretty stupid idea.
29 Jan 2015, 10:03 AM
#6
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Ask 10 Allies (only / biased) players on this forum, 10 of 10 would tell you, para is NOT elite infantry. lol Although they are Obers in US uniform.
Come in... obers are way better. Paras have only similar dps but obers have 0,75 dps on move while paras have 0,25 not to mention insane vet.
I remember game when my obers faced 2x Paras (one squad with LMG, one without upgrade) and my obers lost 2 models while my enemy had to retreat both squads.
29 Jan 2015, 10:05 AM
#7
Posts: 412
It's a 6 man squad and the initial cost of 380 is not their "real cost", as it includes an extra cost incurred for deploying on the battlefield. Their real cost is calculated as 336 mp, after deployment, if my hasty maths before a morning coffee is correct.
Reinforcement cost is calculated by halving the squads price, and dividing by their squad member count. So ergo for Paras, 28 mp a pop.
I'd only really take issue with their LMGS, everything else is fine about the unit imo. LMG's for all factions though are a tricky one to balance due to their weapon profiles.
Although like every other LMG unit bars obers, imo they should not be able to move and fire the dam things
Edit: Although I would not be opposed to a cost adjustment myself, e.g. make them actually cost 380 mp, thus they would have a higher reinforcement cost.
Reinforcement cost is calculated by halving the squads price, and dividing by their squad member count. So ergo for Paras, 28 mp a pop.
I'd only really take issue with their LMGS, everything else is fine about the unit imo. LMG's for all factions though are a tricky one to balance due to their weapon profiles.
Although like every other LMG unit bars obers, imo they should not be able to move and fire the dam things
Edit: Although I would not be opposed to a cost adjustment myself, e.g. make them actually cost 380 mp, thus they would have a higher reinforcement cost.
29 Jan 2015, 10:06 AM
#8
Posts: 1702
Yeah paratroopers are overperforming, but so are obersoldaten.
I really think that both paratroopers and obers should be brought down to be slightly better than lmg 42 grenadiers and DP-28 gaurds.
As it stands now, paratroopers do double the DPS of DP-28 gaurds
and obersoldaten more than double the DPS of lmg-42 grenadiers.
I really think that both paratroopers and obers should be brought down to be slightly better than lmg 42 grenadiers and DP-28 gaurds.
As it stands now, paratroopers do double the DPS of DP-28 gaurds
and obersoldaten more than double the DPS of lmg-42 grenadiers.
29 Jan 2015, 10:25 AM
#9
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Grenadiers are a 240 unit where each entity performs for 60 and reinforces for 30.
Paratroopers cost 380 to deploy but actually perform for 336mp (28*12) since they reinforce for 28.
Each para entity deals more damage than a single grenadier entity (and that's without any upgrades).
So they have a higher mp pool and deal more damage entity wise(and in total of course) at nearly every range.
Now let's compare other squads (paras perform for 336) :
Guards perform for 330, logically the should be much better, or paras should be worse.
Obers perform for 400.
Falls perform for 380 (60 mp deployment cost).
Shocks perform for 390.
Objectively, for what they do, they should reinforce for more mp since they are not in line with the other elite infantry. Of course they are doctrinal, but so are Guards, Shocks & Falls.
Paratroopers cost 380 to deploy but actually perform for 336mp (28*12) since they reinforce for 28.
Each para entity deals more damage than a single grenadier entity (and that's without any upgrades).
So they have a higher mp pool and deal more damage entity wise(and in total of course) at nearly every range.
Now let's compare other squads (paras perform for 336) :
Guards perform for 330, logically the should be much better, or paras should be worse.
Obers perform for 400.
Falls perform for 380 (60 mp deployment cost).
Shocks perform for 390.
Objectively, for what they do, they should reinforce for more mp since they are not in line with the other elite infantry. Of course they are doctrinal, but so are Guards, Shocks & Falls.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
29 Jan 2015, 10:46 AM
#10
Posts: 4928
I don't know the actual stats. But it is perfectly reasonable for paratroopers to be cheaper per model than grenadiers if an individual paratrooper model is inferior to a single grenadier model.
AchtAchter is correct, compared to a Grenadier, a Paratrooper is superior at all but long range. Factor in a 6 man squad vs a 4 man squad, and Paratroopers reign supreme at all ranges. While Grenadiers can get a single MG 42, Paratroopers can get dual M1919's which also fire on the move, giving them a substantial advantage over Grenadiers.
I will not bring up Obers because I believe they're OP shit from a time when OKW was forced to hold a thin line and build up slowly while getting pounded by counter-attacks and artillery fire.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
29 Jan 2015, 12:13 PM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
As long as Ubersoldaten exist in current form, you can't really complain about any allied infantry at all, especially the one squad that actually stands a chance in direct firefight(but will loose horribly when both are vet2 and onwards).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Jan 2015, 12:18 PM
#12
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Paras are not overperforming, c'mon. They are not obers in US uniforms, rather shock troops in US uniforms keeping proportions of course.
They are what an elite infantry should be, except I don't undesrtand why ELITE infantry which is supposed to be far less common than other units has 6 men! Whatever....
Comming back, the only elite unit that is uberperforming is obersoldaten and for a reason: the faction's income handicap. They require some small tone down though I guess.
They are what an elite infantry should be, except I don't undesrtand why ELITE infantry which is supposed to be far less common than other units has 6 men! Whatever....
Comming back, the only elite unit that is uberperforming is obersoldaten and for a reason: the faction's income handicap. They require some small tone down though I guess.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
29 Jan 2015, 12:56 PM
#13
Posts: 721
the problem is that many units price difference doesn't justify their performance..meaning for a small price difference...the performance gain is not justified
29 Jan 2015, 13:11 PM
#14
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
As long as Ubersoldaten exist in current form, you can't really complain about any allied infantry at all, especially the one squad that actually stands a chance in direct firefight(but will loose horribly when both are vet2 and onwards).
Poor Ostheer... every single over-performing allied unit is justified because of OKW.
29 Jan 2015, 14:02 PM
#15
Posts: 1705
Yes,OKW does shit and ostheer the bastard faction must pay.Great balance.Just an excuse.Either shock,ober,para all get nerf or ost gets an option vs lategame elite infantry.Pzgrens doesn't cut it in the slightest sense.
29 Jan 2015, 14:12 PM
#16
1 
Posts: 641 | Subs: 1
Pzgrens doesn't cut it in the slightest sense.
PGrens are OP! Said Relic balance designer somewher in Canada.
ketetof shudnt b allaud tew tawlk abowt balence hee s biasd
29 Jan 2015, 14:21 PM
#17
Posts: 1484
You guys are forgetting that the USF player invests 120Muni for that LMG upgrade (by far the most expensive upgrade for any infantry). Since USF buys LMG, he/she is going to lack air support (which is critical late game). Not to mention the devastating effect to the USF player if he loses his Para LMG squad.
Investing large sums of muni on Elite squad for capable AI ability is not OP.
Investing large sums of muni on Elite squad for capable AI ability is not OP.
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29 Jan 2015, 14:27 PM
#18
Posts: 332
PGrens are OP! Said Relic balance designer somewher in Canada.
Only if they hit the field at an earlier time.
If you are gonna quote, at least quote the whole statement.
29 Jan 2015, 14:29 PM
#19
Posts: 210
This unit blobbing has become a favorite due to how cost-efficient and brutal it is.
Its LMg has solid DPS ,u can get thompsons or bazookas and fires on the move.
Has 6 men,a grenade and above all just 28 reinforce cost- less than a grenadier.
Why does an elite infantry cost less than basic infantry?
+1 considering this unit easily can win against an Ober squad if used correctly (which costs ridiculously 50 MP to reinforce) it's price needs to be increased
29 Jan 2015, 15:11 PM
#20
Posts: 412
Obers scale better and don't pay munitions for their LMG. More utility as well. They come later in tech though.
Vanilla Pgrens vs vanilla paratroopers comparison dps wise is here: http://www.coh2-stats.com/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&squad1=paratrooper_squad_mp&squad2=panzer_grenadier_squad_mp&commit=Compare
In short, Pgrens start off as very good medium range troops who are glass cannons, they out dps Paras and have the option of upgrading to shreks which changes their role. They can be somewhat map/context dependent due to their range profile, but i'd argue that is good design.
Paras are good vanilla, and really shine with their AI upgrades, especially the LMG's because that weapon profile in Coh2 generally speaking, requires less micro and tactical thought. 2 LMG's on a durable platform for 120 munitions and 380 mp is a headache to face, like multiple Gren/ober/whatever squads with LMGs once they hit critical mass.
Vanilla Pgrens vs vanilla paratroopers comparison dps wise is here: http://www.coh2-stats.com/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&squad1=paratrooper_squad_mp&squad2=panzer_grenadier_squad_mp&commit=Compare
In short, Pgrens start off as very good medium range troops who are glass cannons, they out dps Paras and have the option of upgrading to shreks which changes their role. They can be somewhat map/context dependent due to their range profile, but i'd argue that is good design.
Paras are good vanilla, and really shine with their AI upgrades, especially the LMG's because that weapon profile in Coh2 generally speaking, requires less micro and tactical thought. 2 LMG's on a durable platform for 120 munitions and 380 mp is a headache to face, like multiple Gren/ober/whatever squads with LMGs once they hit critical mass.
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