The Community and Relic.

Relic said next patch will be balance patch...
Few months ago they said that they were not focusing on balance but its about to changes.
Few months later - still no sign of balance patch.

It's interesting that this approach is being taken with Relic... because Sega's other big strategy franchise (Total War) hasn't got anywhere near as much red tape as CoH does it appears...

Oh you'd be surprised...

Delurking, just to say that I have never understood wtf Relic Community Managers are actually supposed to be doing as their job.

There is precious little evidence or sign of them doing just about anything at all, from a community and public perspective.

Do they work like 2hrs/week or something?
Looks like it from this side.

I cant fathom what they are actually doing with their time, if they "work" 8hrs a day, with this little demonstrable result.

Noun did the Chili Pepper review. Ive had my issues with him since dow2, but he has my eternal respect for that single act, and was sad to see him leave. That kind of commitment is awesome.

Delurking, just to say that I have never understood wtf Relic Community Managers are actually supposed to be doing as their job.

If this thread is anything to go by, Community Manager for a SEGA company just means "Messenger and Scapegoat".

She has just one post this year. Will she make the second soon...? Dont hold your breath.

Is this legit?

Holy shit, man...

I know it is quite a while since Cynthia posted this but I still think it is worth to dropp it here right now.

Don´t get me wrong, I am not satisfied with the progress as well but I don´t think you can blame the CM´s our only CM for everything. I hope the quotation answers some questions again.

Source:

Boy howdy, this is a doozy. <cracks knuckles> I guess I'd better dig in.

1. Where is Relic's community manager?
A: On my weekend, at that moment of posting. Then, dealing with the flu. Then? In our FB messages, Twitter DMs, emails, Forum private messages, our forums, steam, coh2.org and so on. Now? Here.

2. What's up with ESL? Is it still a thing?
A: Yes, it is still a thing. It's still in the contracts phase right now, though. Once the 'boring business stuff' is more finalized, I'll have more to share and we will be speaking with the community on this.

3. Communication. We want more of it!
A: We're aware that this is the case. From a personal perspective, I tell you guys whatever I can, whenever I'm able to. From a business perspective, why do we often not communicate in-progress stuff? There are a ton of reasons, and the often differ from situation to situation.

I understand the 'we will be left to draw our own conclusions in the absence of information' sentiments, and I always advocate to be as clear or transparent with you guys whenever we can. Sometimes we're not able to. Sometimes someone says 'hey, you can't tell them that just yet, keep it under your hat' and there is a very good reason as to why that is. We have several parties involved that need to be considered, when it comes to sharing information. Our publisher, our own business plans, our platform, games press, and so on. We don’t get to be as transparent as an indie developer, because we have other partners we have to consult with as. We also don’t get to communicate in the same fashion as a much larger developer, because we have a smaller team. I am as of right now a one-person army with the community team. Back in June, there were three of us. We’re in this fun middle-ground area.

4. Communication has not gotten any better, Relic doesn't care. Zero communication.
A: I'm going to refute this one. I acknowledge that communication is not where you might want it to be at, but we have been making improvements. From our team adding intent information to patch notes, to being more responsive in forums when possible, to even spending more time to visit community live streams on Twitch – I KNOW some people have noticed, because some people have said so. Is there still more to do? Hell yeah. Can we still get better? Uh yep, totally. But to suggest it's not changing or improving isn't quite accurate. As some have mentioned, we've started sharing out community-run events on our social channels much more frequently, providing prizes and speaking more closely with people organizing these activities. You want it to improve faster, totally get it - but there are a number of factors here. I can pick a number of people out of this thread that I have been in direct contact with, in order to work building out better relationships with the community. To suggest we don't care? That's not true.

5. Of Bugs, Balance, Mice and Men
Bugs are something that our team is always looking into and investigating. The community is great at finding these, and helping to bring them to our attention. In addition to these reports, our teams find their own issues - frequently issues that don't get discussed in the forums. I’ve seen the team fix game-breaking bugs that don’t see the light of day, but are still very important to resolve. With some bugs, we don't know how long it will take to fix them. Sometimes a fix for one thing breaks another thing, and we have to go back to the drawing board. The bug reporting process is something that I am aware of as needing further attention. We are hoping to build out our community team further in the new year (I know some of you saw the job posting, since you linked to it in the forums) and once we have more hands on deck we can do more things. A lot of the developers we get compared to have four, six, more, people on their community team.

Balance is also another thing that our team is always working on. This is a tricky area to communicate on, everyone has their preferred factions and preferred player tiers, so discussing priorities in advance can quickly become an argument over what is more important. We don't JUST look at community comments when it comes to balance; we pull game numbers as well. The team has to consider both what the die-hard fans and the casual but dedicated fans want, and how these changes will impact everything. It is a balancing (hur hur) act, but one thing is certain - it's something we are always thinking about, discussing internally, working on. The overall health of the game is something that is ALWAYS on our team’s mind.

6. Marketing. Do more of it. Do less of it. Don't do it.
A: This one is hard to address. We get a ton of conflicting comments. We're a business, so marketing is key and important. Some initiatives are done with the aim to get new people into the franchise, raise awareness with those that have never heard of us, or get existing players talking. Not everything we do hits all three of these categories at once. We get a lot of 'stop doing that, and fix bugs/balance the game' - but the people that work on marketing wouldn't be the ones fixing a bug or balancing a unit to begin with. There are also the comments of 'don't waste money on this garbage, spend it on making new stuff in the game' - but if we only made new stuff and did no marketing... there'd be no new players to make the stuff for. Players often have a contentious relationship with marketing, they both want to see it and hate that it exists. We want to do more of it, because it helps our business grow. We are in the process of building our marketing and brand team, and in 2015 we will be able to DO MORE. Somewhere, someone is going to comment on how they’re sick of me saying this… but what else can I really say? Also, it’s the truth. We are building.

7. NDA's are the worst. Relic is bad and they should feel bad.
A: NDA's are at times a 'necessary evil'. We are not the first to utilize them, we will not be the last. While the trend is moving towards more transparent communication with players, that does not mean NDAs will completely disappear. We have been slowly experimenting where it is safe for us to 'let up' on NDA'd information, and where it is still necessary. Sometimes NDAs are there to ensure unfinished game content doesn’t get broadcast/streamed. A surprising amount of people expect what they see to be finished product and finished product only. In some cases, the use of NDAs also help to ensure that there is press interest when something is finally announced, because it is ‘new information’ and therefore newsworthy.

8. I don't want silly fun stuff, I want information. Stop saying things and TELL ME.
A: we're here to have fun... so there's always going to be some of that. Video games = fun! R…right?
If I'm not able to discuss something for any given reason, I'm not going to go completely radio silent, either. So uh…. You’re stuck with me? Sorry man. War Spoils is a good example of this. Can I tell you more about what’s happening? Not right now. Does that mean I should stop talking to people and that we should stop trying to organize or do other fun things? No.


Why did we not release anything else in December?
A. Because Ardennes Assault was a massive update and a huge undertaking. WFA was a big update and a huge undertaking as well. As a mid-sized studio, this development year was quite a hectic one. I realize people on our forums lean towards multi-player, so many also questioned why we were spending time on AA. There is still a large population of players that prefer single-player – they tend not to be as vocal in forums, but we know they very much exist thanks to the numbers. It was important to continue releasing content, and single-player content is often the best entry to then further entice new people into multi-player.

Updates and releases take time to make, and our team had just finished AA. But in addition to AA they pushed significant updates such as obs mode and modding tools. There’s the fact that releases require extensive testing, and the fact that the majority of our studio is on vacation for the Christmas holiday. Can you imagine how awful it would have been to push out a ‘small thing’ quickly without extensive testing, then have no one around to deal with it if something were to go wrong? Our team also needs to be able to recharge it’s batteries after such a hectic work year.

I think that’s it.

Are we dedicated? Yes. I frequently work on my weekends, or late into the night. I am not the exception to the rule. I get that you are inclined to take that with a grain of salt – but I’m still going to say it anyways, because it’s true.

I know it is quite a while since Cynthia posted this but I still think it is worth to dropp it here right now.

Don´t get me wrong, I am not satisfied with the progress as well but I don´t think you can blame the CM´s our only CM for everything. I hope the quotation answers some questions again.

Right but this was posted on the 24th of December and now it's the 29th of January. So when can we actually expect this "communication to improve"? Things need to change and I mean now. I and many others are so fed up with waiting around. The last few days 2 staffers at COH2.org have left. Including many more prominent figures within the community these past few months. It's getting ridiculous now. If Relic don't act now then there wouldn't be much left.

@Hans
The way I see it, which seems to be the way of predicting what Relic/SEGA is going to do or not do, it is simply about money and ROI.

How dare these people act like they are running a business

Cannonade, please, come back when you are making sense. Hans knows as good as I do that things aren't that simple, it kinda suprised me that he made this thread even cause I know he knows most of the answers.

Stop baiting VanVoort, Cannonade. If this thread continues to go this way, I'm locking it. We're past the point of sensible discussions anyway.

Cynthias post referenced feom January in this thread (post 67, tablet wont let me link) is excellent. Its the kind of post that should be printed somewhere in a textbook for community managers.

She is clearly a well educated, intelligent and aware individual who can weigh pros and cons duly.

But, its mostly about explaining the problems, not about exploring solutions.

In that sense, it just further evidences the existing problems in current community management policy and action, rather than talking about ways to improve it so as to react to commu ity concerns, such as expressed by Hans.

Nobody is doubting that the provlems themselves are "not that simple". But that doesnt mean the solutions themselves cannot be simple, or that no solution is possible.

As far as that goes, in terms of improving community management, surely the community is the primary body of feedback whos concerns should be listened to and aired so as to identify them and find solutions?

Perfect community management is like the holy grail of customer service in not only IT but other industries. Problems need to be brought to light, as Hans has done, and solutions suggested, as Hans has done. This kind of feedback, especially from someone with Hans' experience needs to be taken seriously. Nor does it have to happen "backstage". Better that it happens upfront, in public, where all concerned can speak to it.

Its a free, unsolicited, source of feedback, from those the issues are affecting. It is worth its virtual weight in gold. Dont shit on it, or try to suppress it. Cynthia certainly hasnt, and neither did Noun.