Make War not Love 2 - The Rematch

What we know for sure is how long we have to wait to for things to get fixed, thing's that are quite game breaking. The fact there are multiple unfixed bugs in the game that can easily lose you a match is bad.

Unfortunately we seem to be in a Little boy who cried wolf situation.

Yes, there are Bugs and Balancing issues, and they ruin the game. Both the Community AND Relic are aware of that. Do you think whining will make them work faster? All those guys crying about "not enough balancepatches", well, they could patch it more frequently, but then we will have smaller, not thought through patches, which will probably be worse. There is a reason that the balance patch takes time, and that is that Relic probably takes its time to check how and what happen if they change that and that. I find that better than them throwing a patch out every month and then "just see how that plays out". Imagine the balance then...! Balancing 4 factions and a shitton of units is no easy task!

Yes, there are Bugs and Balancing issues, and they ruin the game. Both the Community AND Relic are aware of that. Do you think whining will make them work faster? All those guys crying about "not enough balancepatches", well, they could patch it more frequently, but then we will have smaller, not thought through patches, which will probably be worse. There is a reason that the balance patch takes time, and that is that Relic probably takes its time to check how and what happen if they change that and that. I find that better than them throwing a patch out every month and then "just see how that plays out". Imagine the balance then...! Balancing 4 factions and a shitton of units is no easy task!

Depends on what you mean by balance, tweaking numbers and what not is quite easy and Relic has more than enough staff and testers on hand to release more frequent balance patches. If your talking about removing things or adding things to the game then yes obviously that requires more work and more testing, but you don't need to add or subtract units and abilities in order to make the game more balanced.

For example, lets say Unit X is OP, it does to much damage to fast. You could either A. lower it's damage or B. Lower it's ROF. Both of those things do not require you to add or subtract units from the game.

A patch every month is beyond pathetic for an active RTS, especially when the things we are getting in the patches are basically number changes and bug fixes that we shouldn't need to wait months for. The backbone of any good developer is a critical community, a hug box won't get you anywhere.

EDIT: And when I said "Boy who cried wolf" Relic has been excited about "new" features for months now so you can understand why people are skeptical.

Depends on what you mean by balance, tweaking numbers and what not is quite easy and Relic has more than enough staff and testers on hand to release more frequent balance patches. If your talking about removing things or adding things to the game then yes obviously that requires more work and more testing, but you don't need to add or subtract units and abilities in order to make the game more balanced.

For example, lets say Unit X is OP, it does to much damage to fast. You could either A. lower it's damage or B. Lower it's ROF. Both of those things do not require you to add or subtract units from the game.

A patch every month is beyond pathetic for an active RTS, especially when the things we are getting in the patches are basically number changes and bug fixes that we shouldn't need to wait months for. The backbone of any good developer is a critical community, a hug box won't get you anywhere.

EDIT: And when I said "Boy who cried wolf" Relic has been excited about "new" features for months now so you can understand why people are skeptical.

Yeah, i kind of get the last part, but Relic cant do shit about it! Sega is stopping them with their stupid NDA´s :/ As a developer i would love to tell my fans about the stuff i am working on

And the Balance thing:
What you are saying is exactly the problem. People think it is just some number tweaking.
First of all, Relic and CoH2 is at the moment not making enough money so they can just keep a huge army of balancers working on just that. I would be suprised if more than 5-6 people top are working on it ( it does not generate money, and as a company the leadership does not give a fuck about our gaming experience ).
Secondly, tweaking numbers aint that easy. lets say you lower the damage on the said unit. How does that impact the whole faction? Does the said faction now have a good enough lategame infantry? What other units need to be ajusted, just because you have weakened that one unit?
Example, a lot of people are saying that OKW Volksgrenadiers should loose their shreks. How would that impact the game if Relic would have reacted on the uberblobbingmeta we have right now by just removing them? Okw would have been killed by tanks way too early. Stuff like that takes time. If u weaken one unit, you have to think in a bigger picture. They probably spent a lot of time just calculating stuff, then tweak the numbers, then try it out, change the stats again a little, check again and so on.
I imagine it to be a lot of work. When it only was Sovjets vs Wehr it was a lot easier. Now you have 4 factions which have to be balanced correctly!
I feel sad for Relics employees. They want to do all the stuff we ask for, i am sure of it, but money, chefs, and NDA´s make it impossible. Having a community that then blames them for, yeah, kind of everything that annoys them ( even if it isnt Relics fault ), must really hurt. People usually take pride in their work, and seeing people hate your work sucks and demotivates, especially if it isnt your fault!
So please give them a break, give them some time! Games have changed, we dont get 1 big finished game, like 10 years ago. Now we get games that they keep working on, and i like it that way, but that means that it takes time. Give it to them. They are good people at heart

Dis fucking thread.



Show Spoiler

Soon. Relic shall need your assistance. Again.

You have visited Relic's office and you're just teasing without saying anything, it gets annoying after some time. We need actions not the same story that we've been told over and over during the past months.

I understand you may be happy because you saw some things we haven't but it doesn't change the fact that right now the whole community doesn't know anything and our reaction is based on that.

Only a few things have been found on the game files that don't tell actually a damn thing.

This whole NDA thing needs to go away. If they make promises for months but they don't deliver it's just a natural reaction to get pissed off. They should be more clear saying what's about to come or just say absolutely nothing not even "We're excited". Creating false hype is worse than keeping silence.

They keep making the Hype train more heavy and when the stuff actually arrives it's obviously that part of the community is going to be disappointed because when Relic says something big is going to come, something exciting, everyone hopes for the best things that go trough their minds(Bug fixes, Balance issues, DLC, Commanders, maps rotation, new maps...) You can't blame the community for expecting what they believe the game need.

People wouldn't be that critic with them if they decided for once to tell us what's the plan and what are they going to release.

They take months to throw an update so you expect them to fix almost everything and that's why people is always bitching. People is bitching because Cruzz was able to fix gamebreaking issues and some unbalances in his patch in a single week on his spare time and he doesn't even work at Relic neither he knows the game as well as the developers and of course he is not being paid. When people see this kinds of things happening I think you should understand why everyone is bitching at some point.

+1

I dont get why you guys discuss what, how and why Relic is doing what they are doing, if u actually have no idea about it. Everyone here seems to know stuff i dont.
I will be vocal about stuff if i am asked too or if i have information about it, but discussing "how bad relic is and how shitty future content is gonna be" is ridicouless, and i sadly would understand if Relic would stay out of this Forum.

Lets take these discussions in a few months when the stuff has been announced. All you guys know that big stuff is waiting for us ( leaked things ) so why cry about it now. Please keep the whining until you know what and how it is gonna happen!

I guess as a member of Napalm's clan he has told you something we don't know because otherwise I don't get where all that blind faith comes from.


People's opinion are based on the work Relic has done previously and it's not like Relic has done such a brilliant job in the past that people should trust them blindly. This opinion comes from the reputation that Relic has earned during the last updates of the game, streams, threads... Part of the discussions we see around are there because Relic fails completely to prove that they are really working on the most important things the community care about (Bug fixes, gamebreaking issues, fixing abilities, balance...)

Most of us think that they have their priorities messed up.

Hell, the DoW 2 elite mod people have added more units to the DoW 2 Retribution unit list than Relic has added to the game since COH2's release and despite having 7 factions the game remains balanced. Guess how much the mod costs to, it rhymes with hero hollars.

We have seen time and time again the issues the game faces in many area's could be easily fixed, yet we must wait months for critical bug fixed. If a modding team can release constant betas and updates then why can't a professional development team do the same thing?

The idea of having a constant "beta" or "testing" version of COH2 where Relic is constantly adjusting things and introducing new elements for us to test would be amazing, it would allow them to make balance changes with quick player feed back. There is a large community out there just dying to help Relic fix this game, and Relic needs to wake up and take advantage of it.

You have visited Relic's office and you're just teasing without saying anything, it gets annoying after some time. We need actions not the same story that we've been told over and over during the past months.

I understand you may be happy because you saw some things we haven't but it doesn't change the fact that right now the whole community doesn't know anything and our reaction is based on that.

Only a few things have been found on the game files that don't tell actually a damn thing.

This whole NDA thing needs to go away. If they make promises for months but they don't deliver it's just a natural reaction to get pissed off. They should be more clear saying what's about to come or just say absolutely nothing not even "We're excited". Creating false hype is worse than keeping silence.

They keep making the Hype train more heavy and when the stuff actually arrives it's obviously that part of the community is going to be disappointed because when Relic says something big is going to come, something exciting, everyone hopes for the best things that go trough their minds(Bug fixes, Balance issues, DLC, Commanders, maps rotation, new maps...) You can't blame the community for expecting what they believe the game need.

People wouldn't be that critic with them if they decided for once to tell us what's the plan and what are they going to release.

They take months to throw an update so you expect them to fix almost everything and that's why people is always bitching. People is bitching because Cruzz was able to fix gamebreaking issues and some unbalances in his patch in a single week on his spare time and he doesn't even work at Relic neither he knows the game as well as the developers and of course he is not being paid. When people see this kinds of things happening I think you should understand why everyone is bitching at some point.



I guess as a member of Napalm's clan he has told you something we don't know because otherwise I don't get where all that blind faith comes from.


People's opinion are based on the work Relic has done previously and it's not like Relic has done such a brilliant job in the past that people should trust them blindly. This opinion comes from the reputation that Relic has earned during the last updates of the game, streams, threads... Part of the discussions we see around are there because Relic fails completely to prove that they are really working on the most important things the community care about (Bug fixes, gamebreaking issues, fixing abilities, balance...)

Most of us think that they have their priorities messed up.

relic was kind enough to let community members (not so prominent either) come into their studio. and relic obviously made a good impression. that is all it is. i don't know why ppl get apeshit over some positiveness from a very small minority of the forum community.

maybe napalm should've kept quiet.

or even better, he should've bashed relic after the visit, so everybody can get on the 'bash relic' bandwagon and be mates.

Napalm is very excited to tell you he is very excited that after visiting Relic he knows that they are very excited about being very excited to

So when can I download my close air support commander?

next week

Napalm is very excited to tell you he is very excited that after visiting Relic he knows that they are very excited about being very excited to

Wow that's really funny and original dude. Nice profile pic btw

I haven't said that

I have said that I'm willing to assume that they have good reasons for not doing what the vocal minority want rather than because they are stupid and evil.


Now they are not going what I want them do be doing either, but I accept that catering to me is not a valid business model

I don't have my own video game business but I'm player, I play many games and I have feeling if company cares about me.
For example AA release.
I was little hyped but ONLY because I was in alpha. What about rest? We ve got 1 trailer. Nothing more. This is not the way you sell new product. You should announce, show and sell. Not announce and sell.
Point is, they should start marketing not 2 days before release but at least 3 weeks so people have time to hype, and decide.

About MWNL2, I was watching streams and when they were saying about amazing skins, decals and old commander I felt little weird, like thery were doing this half-hearted. But this is just my feeling.

Custom commanders? We know something about it. Something about legendary and rare abilities. When we will recive more informations? I guess two days before release. Wrong! Relic should make a stream about incoming stuff. They should present it, tell us how it will work etc. It does not matter that in will be released for example in 1-2months. This gives community time to disscus, think and convince ourselves that we want it. Showing something day or two before is a bad way to sell the product.

This is basic rule. You need to hype your customers. If you won't hype them, they won't buy so many copies.

I also have no idea what good reasons they might have to nox fix old abilities which are broken/useless after WFA. 8 months and still nothing! Useless Lende-Lease. Not to mention new one like Thompsons for crew. No one uses it, Relic think this ability is OK. Wut?!

Or Truck crush. In alpha truck could crush infrantry like hell. It was damn game breaking. Relic released WFA with this "feature" despite we reported this issue many times. What good purposue they had to not fix it before release?

First of all, Relic and CoH2 is at the moment not making enough money so they can just keep a huge army of balancers working on just that.

Winterfeld, come on. You don't need army. You need only one person. Cruzz. If Cruzz can make everything on his onw, Relic's balance team can't do it for months?

Wow that's really funny and original dude. Nice profile pic btw

I'm very excited that you like it.

Yeah, i kind of get the last part, but Relic cant do shit about it! Sega is stopping them with their stupid NDA´s :/ As a developer i would love to tell my fans about the stuff i am working on

And the Balance thing:
What you are saying is exactly the problem. People think it is just some number tweaking.
First of all, Relic and CoH2 is at the moment not making enough money so they can just keep a huge army of balancers working on just that. I would be suprised if more than 5-6 people top are working on it ( it does not generate money, and as a company the leadership does not give a fuck about our gaming experience ).
Secondly, tweaking numbers aint that easy. lets say you lower the damage on the said unit. How does that impact the whole faction? Does the said faction now have a good enough lategame infantry? What other units need to be ajusted, just because you have weakened that one unit?
Example, a lot of people are saying that OKW Volksgrenadiers should loose their shreks. How would that impact the game if Relic would have reacted on the uberblobbingmeta we have right now by just removing them? Okw would have been killed by tanks way too early. Stuff like that takes time. If u weaken one unit, you have to think in a bigger picture. They probably spent a lot of time just calculating stuff, then tweak the numbers, then try it out, change the stats again a little, check again and so on.
I imagine it to be a lot of work. When it only was Sovjets vs Wehr it was a lot easier. Now you have 4 factions which have to be balanced correctly!
I feel sad for Relics employees. They want to do all the stuff we ask for, i am sure of it, but money, chefs, and NDA´s make it impossible. Having a community that then blames them for, yeah, kind of everything that annoys them ( even if it isnt Relics fault ), must really hurt. People usually take pride in their work, and seeing people hate your work sucks and demotivates, especially if it isnt your fault!
So please give them a break, give them some time! Games have changed, we dont get 1 big finished game, like 10 years ago. Now we get games that they keep working on, and i like it that way, but that means that it takes time. Give it to them. They are good people at heart

sure, and then, Cruzz came and release his kappatch in 24 hours giving us a more balanced product....

Yeah, i kind of get the last part, but Relic cant do shit about it! Sega is stopping them with their stupid NDA´s :/ As a developer i would love to tell my fans about the stuff i am working on

And the Balance thing:
What you are saying is exactly the problem....

There is something called test server where you can... test balance. So I'm open to believe they performed some internal tests on it, but why not making it visible? Why not letting players making their own mind on something concrete, what do work and what doesn't work.

Second point is majority of people around here aren't anger to get new stuff, but to have the stuff currently sold working bug free and being balanced. Dunno why should we beg of it.

There is something called test server where you can... test balance. So I'm open to believe they performed some internal tests on it, but why not making it visible? Why not letting players making their own mind on something concrete, what do work and what doesn't work.

Second point is majority of people around here aren't anger to get new stuff, but to have the stuff currently sold working bug free and being balanced. Dunno why should we beg of it.

After Tiger Ace case or Close the pocket I hardly belive in this test balance servers
Or I put little trust in people who test it.

After Tiger Ace case or Close the pocket I hardly belive in this test balance servers

There's nothing wrong with Close The Pocket. It's only viable on a small number of maps, and can be seen from miles away. If you fail to prepare or secure you're territories, that's all on you.

There's nothing wrong with Close The Pocket. It's only viable on a small number of maps, and can be seen from miles away. If you fail to prepare or secure you're territories, that's all on you.

Right now it's nothing wrong with it, but when it was released?
I have never faced close the pocket but it was nerfed. Why? Because most people here where unpleased with one button killing all army. And that's the case. Game should be balance for bigger group, not only for elite, right?

I gues it is before nerf.

I don't think CTP has ever been nerfed. Such a nerf is not listed in the patch notes.

When is the new balance patch coming out anyway?

Is it just me, or is this thread totaly out of control