Ostwind or Panzer 4 ?

Hello everybody , i would like some advice. What do you think is Ostwind a better choice than Panzer 4 as a first build in tier 2 ? I know its a matter of opponent or map, but for me lately Ostwind fares a little better but i would like to hear your oppinion

thanks

I allways go Panzer IV and after that often use Ostwind as support. Panzer IV can mostly deal with both infantry and vehicles. It is a good all-around choice before going Tiger I. But it depends as you have already mentioned on your opponents tactics.

Both are good, but PIV is a way safer choice. Also, people here generally refer to that tier as tier 3 (yes, I know it's called Battle Phase 2). Welcome to the site!

Hello everybody , i would like some advice. What do you think is Ostwind a better choice than Panzer 4 as a first build in tier 2 ? I know its a matter of opponent or map, but for me lately Ostwind fares a little better but i would like to hear your oppinion

thanks

P4 is more versatile and have a better vet2(+30% armor +40% Turret Rotation vs -20% Cooldown +40% AA Capacity).

There is no Ostwind in T2 + it depends on what ur opponent is doing, like all units.

Both are good, but PIV is a way safer choice. Also, people here generally refer to that tier as tier 3 (yes, I know it's called Battle Phase 2). Welcome to the site!

Didnt know that about tiers, thank for that info too. And thanks for welcomes

There is no Ostwind in T2 + it depends on what ur opponent is doing, like all units.

I thought that battle phase 2 is tier 2 now i get it

I personally love a Pak43 (Doctrinal) and Ostwind combo. If youve built your Support armour corp and have fuel and MP, and you have not seen enemy armour or your opponent has made alot of infi, then a Ostwind is really good.

This works better vs Soviets, as the Soviet meta has players waiting for tanks, so a Ostwind can punish the shock and/or con spam especially since Lennys new guide came out

If you can exploit the lack of Sov AT then its a good choice. P4 tends to be shut down by 1 Jackson, but its much safer as it has both AT and AI roles, and has better vet as mentioned above.

I'LL go with PIV the "ostwind" some how is struggling in maneuvering with me and there is no point to tech at this stage of the game as ostheer VS soviet and when you play against USf you do need pak support or PG's with shrks to deal with any USf medium tank (Sherman will beat PIV in 1v1 tank battle )and the sherman coast less.

Panzer IV is the safer choice. I rarely build the Ostwind. If were going to do an Ostwind, I'd need probably 2 pgrens with schrecks and perhaps an AT gun for it to fall back on. THe Ostwind is not much cheaper than a P4 and just doesn't counter any midgame tanks even though it's a tank itself.

It might work if you built a Stug first and the Stug killed the first 1 or 2 tanks that the enemy has built already to reduce the enemy tank threat. Stugs/Ostwinds are way less multi-purpose than a Panzer IV is, even if they have higher DPS for their specific battlefield roles.

In order to justify an Ostwind there needs to be factors that make it right for the situation, one would be a huge fuel advantage over my enemy, I.E. taking my enemies fuel point. If I know his fuel income is pretty bad compared to mine, I could justify an Ostwind since at most I'm facing vehicles, support weapons and infantry anyways. For my Ostheer plays, fuel advantages are rare unless the opponent is really bad because usually I find myself on the defensive in the early game as Wehrmacht until I get to the midgame t3 units.

The other factor might be, if fuel incomes were even, is if I had already had 2-3 AT units (preferably 3) and a soft counter to go with it like the Grenadiers Panzerfaust on the field already for the Ostwind to fall back on when facing the enemy tank (bait the tank into a trap perhaps) and was using the Ostwind for AI and Anti-Vehicle, and destroying buildings duties. It could work if you know your opponent, usually US, has already built a boat load of vehicles that the Ostwind could easily annihilate, or your Soviet opponent for whatever oddball reason, chose to build a half track and a couple T70's as opposed to a T34/76

TO me the Ostwind is much less multi-purpose than the Panzer IV is. The Panzer IV also gets superior veterancy at vet 2, is superior at countering enemy tanks even if it's not "great" at it, that 30% armor buff really helps it's survivability which means your micro doesn't have to be near as good to keep it alive as opposed to a vetted Ostwind. If your Ostwind runs into a T34, and the T34 kills it, or runs over a mine and a ZiS kills it, that will severely handicap your midgame, where at least the Panzer IV stands a fighting chance when facing an enemy medium tank.

Even against Easy 8's and M36's, a vet2+ Panzer IV doesn't die nearly as easily as a vetted Ostwind would, and poses a bit of a threat to enemy tank by itself since it's main gun is actually capable of damaging other tanks, even SU85's and rear shots on IS2's.

Panzer IV is the safer choice. I rarely build the Ostwind. If were going to do an Ostwind, I'd need probably 2 pgrens with schrecks and perhaps an AT gun for it to fall back on. THe Ostwind is not much cheaper than a P4 and just doesn't counter any midgame tanks even though it's a tank itself.

It might work if you built a Stug first and the Stug killed the first 1 or 2 tanks that the enemy has built already to reduce the enemy tank threat. Stugs/Ostwinds are way less multi-purpose than a Panzer IV is, even if they have higher DPS for their specific battlefield roles.

In order to justify an Ostwind there needs to be factors that make it right for the situation, one would be a huge fuel advantage over my enemy, I.E. taking my enemies fuel point. If I know his fuel income is pretty bad compared to mine, I could justify an Ostwind since at most I'm facing vehicles, support weapons and infantry anyways. For my Ostheer plays, fuel advantages are rare unless the opponent is really bad because usually I find myself on the defensive in the early game as Wehrmacht until I get to the midgame t3 units.

The other factor might be, if fuel incomes were even, is if I had already had 2-3 AT units (preferably 3) and a soft counter to go with it like the Grenadiers Panzerfaust on the field already for the Ostwind to fall back on when facing the enemy tank (bait the tank into a trap perhaps) and was using the Ostwind for AI and Anti-Vehicle, and destroying buildings duties. It could work if you know your opponent, usually US, has already built a boat load of vehicles that the Ostwind could easily annihilate, or your Soviet opponent for whatever oddball reason, chose to build a half track and a couple T70's as opposed to a T34/76

TO me the Ostwind is much less multi-purpose than the Panzer IV is. The Panzer IV also gets superior veterancy at vet 2, is superior at countering enemy tanks even if it's not "great" at it, that 30% armor buff really helps it's survivability which means your micro doesn't have to be near as good to keep it alive as opposed to a vetted Ostwind. If your Ostwind runs into a T34, and the T34 kills it, or runs over a mine and a ZiS kills it, that will severely handicap your midgame, where at least the Panzer IV stands a fighting chance when facing an enemy medium tank.

Even against Easy 8's and M36's, a vet2+ Panzer IV doesn't die nearly as easily as a vetted Ostwind would, and poses a bit of a threat to enemy tank by itself since it's main gun is actually capable of damaging other tanks, even SU85's and rear shots on IS2's.

thanks for your insight i will try these advices

I tend to go for the Panzer IV first because it's quite good at both Anti-infantry and Anti-tank. One thing is that if it's an Ostwind, I might lose it if the opponent goes for a T-34 or M4 which I don't want since it's a reasonable fuel investment. At least the Panzer IV can defend itself from the enemy tank. I really only go for Ostwind when there's an infantry blob/spam that is too much for my HMG42/LMG42 combo.

When I choose Mobile Defense Doctrine (which grants you access to Puma) I go for Ostwind. Why? Because then you absolutely dominate hostile infantry combined with your LMG42 grens. Your PAK40s and Puma can offer more than sufficient AT provided you faust flanking/charging tanks in order to finish them off from long range.