Elite Mod Balance

Post them opinions here

- Medbunker is far too good for what it costs.

- OMCG maybe a bit too strong.

- Stormtroopers still pretty meh.

- Snipers are in a good spot.

- US might be a bit too strong right now on any map but Langres.

- I disagree for now, mainly because of the mortar and US rifle dominance.

- The above being said: How do people find the US mortar? is it overperforming as Symbi mentioned?

- They are more expensive, higher health units than Grens with the addition of camouflage (and different nade and AI weapon) I don't see much I can do about that.

- Are they? Are they still desirable to buy? I almost find them a poor unit.

- Yes agreed I'm putting rifleman reinforce definitely to 25, US tends to float manpower, especially after the BAR upgrade they can easily contain Wehr and have map control, if not destroy Wehr completely. However I feel other options beside BARS, are fine. (Including mortar, that's why I'm asking feedback on Mortar and snipers )
I can't really nerf the BARs(?) as VET 3 grens and KCH might dominate again.
I found the puma in need of something more. I'm gonna put the old price back and mini buff it.

This is what I already made after saturday, but ofc it's still open for change:
Show Spoiler

I still think you wanna change way too much.
and you give too many boost on Units who doesnt need them.

just one example: Ranger/ Airborneranger They were always pretty strong vs Grenns and Volx MG even KCH. And Vet2-3 makes them like terminators. But why never get many of them or even one?
Because Wehr has most of the time 2 Snipers and than u cant reinforce Rangers or AB. You killed the Sniperspam (Pretty good joob) and buffed the Ranger /AB so they good dual buffed. Same Story on other Units like the Rax and the US income. US just bleed out of MP when Wehr always has 2 Snipers.

I just think the only Patch CoH1 needs:

Rax reinforce to 25mp (not because of the Wehr. Because of PE inf/AC spamm)

Sniper upkeep increase (like u did)

Sniperspam negativ effect on them (llike u did)

m10 missfire bug (maybe the m10 would be too good in 2v2 now...)

Fix the Stag mg (like u did)

this is my Opinion But...

Here something about your Mod.

Sniper gets way too much damage vs BARS on retread. We dont play CoH2 were snipers get oneshooted randomly on max range.

KT back to the old system 500mp/500 upkeep. (KT was in perfect shape)

Calliope +1 Cp / Way to early

Tiger +1 Cp / EXTREM TO EARLY

Airbornes are extrem strong.


I think Storms are good like they are, just u dont need them.



Rangers are insane Return their old Vet System, maybe buff the bazooka a bit more vs Pumas/PE vehicels

ATGuns are way too good vs Pumas ( i think that i never saw a missshot in the turney or in any of my games)


Return the US T17 to the old one. (M8 and Stag are total the same only the M8 needs 40 Ammo)


MG42 on 260mp no idea why u change that. MG 42 traversing speed seems slow as Fu*K (dont know if u changed it)


MG42 totaly broken vs yellow cover ( maybe u changed something about this, please check it)


OMCG way too strong but please dont set the MP too 1000 .

There ve to be stupid and weak random call ins. OMCG was always luck and should be luck not insta win.


Puma: just set it on the old stats it was totaly fine. (maybe increase acc with the 50mm)



Dont get me wrong i like that at least one is caring about CoH balance, but i still think u change way too much...

multiple Snipers

Technically, nothing holds you back from using 2+ snipers, just keep them apart far enough if you don't want to risk the received accuracy, or keep them at an unreachable distance. (Beware of things like strafing run though.) There are more counters to elite infantry than snipers no? Elite armor, flamers, lmgs, mp44's, armor ...

Sniper gets way too much damage vs BARS on retreat. We dont play CoH2 were snipers get oneshooted randomly on max range.

Bars are unchanged vs snipers, but it's not undebatable for change

KT back to the old system 500mp/500 upkeep

Agreed it was fine, but I wanted a small KT buff (to counteract M10 misfire fix) and Tommy didn't want the turret speed buff so we came up with a net mp buff. But 900mp is probably too high to speak of a buff.

Calliope +1 Cp / Way to early

Tiger +1 Cp / EXTREM TO EARLY

And yet I haven't seen these doctrine (paths) do anything OP.
Rushing Right hand side infantry offers much more than rushing Calliope. Ofc in lategame tank fights the right hand side armor doc will probably be stronger ...
Should we only pick infantry doc and leave Armor for the '"cool" kids on the block who just want to be different'.

Return the US T17 to the old one. (M8 and Stag are total the same only the M8 needs 40 Ammo)

T17 is 10 fuel extra, stun vs mine, different veterancy bonuses. It gives a clear option and depends on strategy / preference.

Before the T17 was in essence pretty shit, the only thing it gave was that it doesn't cost munitions. And thus it totally relied on Arty / Strafe or T17 swarm + field repairs. But it was never a unit on it's own. I truly don't want to fall into free to execute toxic game patterns.

MG42...

MG42 gun is unchanged: there whenever a weapon/unit/ability or w/e rgd is edited it turns up red, MG42 is still blue.
Well the squad has a bit of higher health and much lower reinforce costs, so I put it back to it's old price, the one before Wehr T1 became too strong. (pre 2.602)

There ve to be stupid and weak random call ins. OMCG was always luck and should be luck not insta win.

The lucky random gamble is a good thing now?
OMCG has been performing really well, but I think trimming some of the excess manpower US has would be a good idea first. (especially after they go Bars first)

After we can see how it performs, I've seen people spam OMCG and still lose.

Puma: just set it on the old stats it was totaly fine. (maybe increase acc with the 50mm)

Mwuh it wasn't, any weapon fully relying on a burst bug to do it's damage is not fine. You can either rape shit up, or do nothing at all.
I do realize my version isn't in it's best state either.

And yet I haven't seen these doctrine (paths) do anything OP.
Rushing Right hand side infantry offers much more than rushing Calliope. Ofc in lategame tank fights the right hand side armor doc will probably be stronger ...
Should we only pick infantry doc and leave Armor for the '"cool" kids on the block who just want to be different'.

Well i played a few Games vs BKmod and Nagganno and the early Tiger just killed everything. Totaly made for stuipd T1-T2-Stuh-Tiger gameplay.

The problem on Armor/Airborne/blitzkrieg are not their Units are too weak. No InfanteryDoc just ve everything u want in one Doc.

Armor: Only Arty u ve the Calliope.

As long as u saving CP and MP for it you are fucked. But after the Calli u just can Rape your enemy.

All other things are not good in 1v1 like AWM (How many Times u ve 2 Shermans or m10 in a balanced 1v1).

Fieldrepair is pretty good.

Pershing comes now way to late vs this new Tiger.

And u need for playin Armor t3 and t4 at the same time, On some maps u can play it verywell like Sturzdorf or WrackedTrain or Langres if u killed the Wehr in the early/midgame.

The only thing u could change lower the Upkeep of the Calli, i think its insane high.



Airborne: Reconrun: Good but not special

Straifrun: Never saw one, i guess it kills shit and some units will survive

Bombingrun: Never saw one,


Airbornes: Terminators, they deal easily vs Grenns Vet2 Volx.

AB ATgun: good too use with T4

Supplydrop: good.


I realy think Airborne is a very good Doctrin now. It always was a good Doctrin, the only thing the Strafe was in one Patch waytoostrong or way too weak. Bombingrun was good but sometimes a bit broken.

But all US doc´s cant catch up to Inf uve Mines for Infantery -> offmap -> Onmaparty Ranger (rocking in your Patch) Offmap ( always good combos.)



The Same story on the Axi Side:


You think Blitz is too weak.

Storms are pretty awesome but more for 2v2Games (like Armor and Airborne)( They need too much Ammo for dual shrecks and time to sneak around the map wich u dont ve in 1v1)


But Storms are better Grenns but why should u need better Grenns if u can build cheaper Grenns.
You can´t skip off T2 because AT vs m8 only based on Shrecks never works really well.

You just skip off T2 if u know okay the Us got Nates Bars and has no fuelincome at the hole game.
But than u need every MP for Pumas Nebels Stugs and not for another Infantery.

Stg44 Storms can rape lonley capping riffels in a second.

Well the Stuh.

Random as ever...


Early Tiger: The King vs US players who only get T4 or Calliope without t3. His Speed his Damage vs all Units in this Game is insane. But u need Tank Vet 2-3 but no problem u dont even ve to spent fuel on anything.
In my Opinion the Best Unit in the Game (after the good old Tiger ACE)



Blitznates: i rly liked the old onces, didnt tested yours yet. Only good for and vs Spammers (vesat) But u dont use them because every Wehr gets Mines or shrecks before wastin ammo on Nates.

Blitzkrieg: i just used it in Tankfights, pretty strong.

MPschub: awesome but i think going rightside Blitz only for this isnt worth vs a decent player.

Only bad thing about Blitz u dont ve any Arty

I rly think Blitz can catch up without the early Tiger too other Docs, but the most people still trust on Kingtiger/propwar/ Firestorm etc. For the Vaterland Def aRty. etc. etc

MG42 gun is unchanged: there whenever a weapon/unit/ability or w/e rgd is edited it turns up red, MG42 is still blue.
Well the squad has a bit of higher health and much lower reinforce costs, so I put it back to it's old price, the one before Wehr T1 became too strong. (pre 2.602)

Okay sound good too me, didnt know the increase health. But could u please check the Suppression vs YellowCover to an older Coh version, because i think there is something wrong in your and in the Steamversion. ( Same on Splashdamage vs Vet 2 German Infantery )

Technically, nothing holds you back from using 2+ snipers

Just the insane high upkeep ( i like this)

After we can see how it performs, I've seen people spam OMCG and still lose.

How many Types of OMCG do you ve? Maybe add a few more.


I played vs guys with maphack and they still lost.

- Jeep underperforming against Sniper
So instead you changed weapons stats which alter other scenarios in which is a Jeep is
used, which quite frankly it not necessarily needed.

- US MP bleed in the long run
You took the short term route (adjusting reinforce cost) which affects the balance between the early US vs WM. The SY and its upgrades are meant to lessen this bleed in the long run...

- Croc underperforming in its role as a AI unit vs infantry
The aim time and flame speed were enough, the other changes were unneeded.

At let me reply to a previous pm:

The Quad dps for example: you send those charts months ago: was quite a bit weaker than
the M3's 50cal for example. I buffed the Quad's dps. To be similar at close range. (and
quite a bit better at long) so it truly becomes an upgrade. (Apart from that +60hp)
Furthermore Quads burst and cooldown were very random and it's reload really long. This was
really hampering the reliability of the weapon.

You forget that to that 50cal to function you need at least 140 mp sitting in it. Plus you
neglect that, the weapon feature is to provide long range dps(which is better amd it has a longer range than the 50cal(40m)) with better suppression and no units to be occupied in it. So it was already an upgrade. The damage value change will mess up the PE matchup also, its +40% increased dps vs the light vehicles against which it already performed really well. By this example I just wanted to point out that you are rather short sighted which (in)directly led to the points Purlictor and others made.

My analysis is far from complete but I don't have enough time nor patience to analyze
all changes, this was just scratch on the surface. Of course there are valid changes but
the others are either unneeded or just messing around with no regard of indirect (or even
direct) effects.

Kiraye is actually right on that one. Also, you guys seem to completely forget about the pretty decent suppression from the Maxson, even on long range it provides supression after like 2 bursts...

- Jeep underperforming against Sniper

- US MP bleed in the long run

- Croc underperforming in its role as a AI unit vs infantry

* Jeep didn't do any damage in any scenario, now it does a little bit, and still not all that much. It's in a fine spot, I haven't seen anything oP about it

* The long run was never the problem it's the short run that IS the problem. After an early engagement where you'd go equal on a flank US was loosing out compared to Wehr.

* Maybe, maybe not. The Croc does hardcounter full infantry tactics now. (While not having any form of AT) Is that a bad thing for the highest fuel cost unit the US has as it's disposal?
Edit:That being said: I'd personally wouldn't have put the 50 cal on the croc either: I could remove that.

* I'm well aware of the Quad being OP vs PE vehicles. That's what I pointed out to Lexy aswell before my games vs him.
BUT if the Quad was a useful damage/suppression tool you'd seen it more being used for sieges, yet nobody ever used it. (talking bout wehr - Us)

* Jeep didn't do any damage in any scenario, now it does a little bit, and still not all that much. It's in a fine spot, I haven't seen anything oP about it

* The long run was never the problem it's the short run that IS the problem. After an early engagement where you'd go equal on a flank US was loosing out compared to Wehr.

* Maybe, maybe not. The Croc does hardcounter full infantry tactics now. (While not having any form of AT) Is that a bad thing for the highest fuel cost unit the US has as it's disposal?

* I'm well aware of the Quad being OP vs PE vehicles. That's what I pointed out to Lexy aswell before my games vs him.
BUT if the Quad was a useful damage/suppression tool you'd seen it more being used for sieges, yet nobody ever used it.

The problem with the quad is that it's munitions heavy, and dies in 2 pak shots. Since pak is cloaked you cannot gurantee that you'll spot the pak before it first-hit strikes your halftrack. And since it's using the halftrack moving tables (aka fucked up rampage pathing) it's highly likely that the pak gets a 2nd shot off, destroying your large investment with no return.
The M8 can take a 3rd shot at less ammo cost, that's why it's more useful/more generally used.

Imo the only chance to remove this issue would be to nerf the pak accuracy against halftracks significantly.

Imo the only chance to remove this issue would be to nerf the pak accuracy against halftracks significantly.

Well you gave another solution aswell: improving pathing of halftrack. But I personally don't know how to really do that.

* Jeep didn't do any damage in any scenario, now it does a little bit, and still not all that much. It's in a fine spot, I haven't seen anything oP about it

Well at the DPS front it was good against most early game WM units except Volks. And Snipers, which was one of its intended role but was quiet subpar in it and that's what needed fixing. With pushing infantry it was really good, great even, the Jeep is an utility unit, you forget that. Against PE infantry and certain light vehicles it was great even at DPS.
I am not saying that the measly overall 10% dps increase made it OP, just it is unnecessary and even that not addressing it's issue against Snipers (just a tad bit, which is still underwhelming).

* The long run was never the problem it's the short run that IS the problem. After an early engagement where you'd go equal on a flank US was loosing out compared to Wehr.

Well -3 mp per model will not affect significantly this issue, only makes it noticeable in the long run. Reinforce cost changes kick in after a time-period, so adjusting it and hoping it will fix short term issues is naive at best. Note that Supply Yard in itself gives upkeep bonus, so you could have buffed that bonus so basic Rifle strat would recover faster in MP and would not affect strats with BARs.
And what you say only gets a noticeable issue at the long run.

* Maybe, maybe not. The Croc does hardcounter full infantry tactics now. (While not having any form of AT) Is that a bad thing for the highest fuel cost unit the US has as it's disposal?

All changes beside the flame speed and aim time are unneeded, not because it is OP/UP, just unnecessary.
The thing is, a part of the other changes(for example FHQ, cost from 260 to 250...) you made are unneeded because of this, either adding or doing nothing or at worst affecting balance in an indirect way.

* I'm well aware of the Quad being OP vs PE vehicles. That's what I pointed out to Lexy aswell before my games vs him.
BUT if the Quad was a useful damage/suppression tool you'd seen it more being used for sieges, yet nobody ever used it.

The problem with the quad is that it's munitions heavy, and dies in 2 pak shots. Since pak is cloaked you cannot gurantee that you'll spot the pak before it first-hit strikes your halftrack. And since it's using the halftrack moving tables (aka fucked up rampage pathing) it's highly likely that the pak gets a 2nd shot off, destroying your large investment with no return.
The M8 can take a 3rd shot at less ammo cost, that's why it's more useful/more generally used.

Imo the only chance to remove this issue would be to nerf the pak accuracy against halftracks significantly.

On spot, except the less RNG based tweak would be the damage table, tweaking it so that vanilla halftrack would still die to 2 shots and with the quad upgrade it would take 3 (note that quad upgrade also gives +60 hp, I think even Relic devs intended to make it to take at least 3 shots but did not take the PaK camo damage bonus into the calculation).

Well you gave another solution aswell: improving pathing of halftrack. But I personally don't know how to really do that.

I'm actually working on improving the pathing plans for vehicles on Eastern Front. However, I'm pretty much as clueless as you are I guess. I'll need to do some extensive testing to fix anything.

About the Quad HT once more: Yes, it receives additional hp, and when the pak is decloaked it takes 3 shots to destroy the quad. The dmg bonus from cover camo really seems to be forgotten.

Question is wether the m3 should be forgiving to be used or not. Imo it wouldn't hurt to make it 3-shot-able from the pak by default. Ofc USA 57mm 2-shots 251 sdkfz, too, but at least you can spot the 57mm beforehand.

Question is wether the m3 should be forgiving to be used or not. Imo it wouldn't hurt to make it 3-shot-able from the pak by default. Ofc USA 57mm 2-shots 251 sdkfz, too, but at least you can spot the 57mm beforehand.

I don't think it should be forgiven, it would open the option to just overrun any wehr position with halftrack spam. Even if the Wehr player has a well positioned pak.