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Cyanara's Wehrmacht Overhaul

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steel
9 Jan 2015, 12:55 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2015, 12:36 PMLichtbringer
I agree with everything.
And yes there was a time where everything revolved around the Flamerht. Soviets HAD to go Guards. But since then, it was nerfed in a many ways. Too many.

I would also do something about the Sniper. First of all the vet 1 ability. Oh what joys I could have with sprint.

Maybe he gets more usefull when MGs are better, but I doubt it. Then people will just build more MGs :D

He could get a bit sight range back, atleast enough to match his range.
To keep in theme and asymetry, I would suggest a vet 1 ability that allows the sniper for a short time to go invisible undependent of cover (5-7 seconds?) or become invisible on activation while standing still and not shooting. Or give him the ability to plant bushes :D
Or if we want to keep the current one, just buff it... -_-
Or general survivability buffs.
Bushes in the war torn streets of Stalingrad. :D


About that cloaking ability, does it come with a slowdown? Cautious movement. :P
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Cyanara
9 Jan 2015, 13:07 PM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2015, 12:38 PMRMMLz

That's the point, if there is gonna be a MG buff as OP suggested, LMG grenadiers at higher vets (specially ver 3) need a slight nerf.


I imagine that probably is the case. People do seem less than thrilled at how devastating vetted lmg gren blobs are. Technically there should usually be armoured or indirect counters by that point, but it is something that should be looked into. I'd personally put it second to lifting up the team in general though. If people have alternatives to gren blobs, lmgs might not be as big an issue.
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Romeo
9 Jan 2015, 15:59 PM
#23
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great thread :thumb:
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Spanky
9 Jan 2015, 16:13 PM
#24
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In vCoH ( i know i know ), the MG42 was in a perfect position, i recently played a few games and they just felt like a true unit that counters blobbing but was very weak vs flanking. Microing your mg42 was awarded highly there, but in CoH2 the MG42 only awards you when you retreat it on time.
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steel
9 Jan 2015, 16:15 PM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2015, 16:13 PMSpanky
In vCoH ( i know i know ), the MG42 was in a perfect position, i recently played a few games and they just felt like a true unit that counters blobbing but was very weak vs flanking. Microing your mg42 was awarded highly there, but in CoH2 the MG42 only awards you when you retreat it on time.
+1
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CasTroy
9 Jan 2015, 16:17 PM
#26
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^^This! +1
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Mittens
9 Jan 2015, 16:26 PM
#27
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Some very good points here. Wehr def need to be looked at and adjusted. The flakpnzr tho seems to be better then the last patch tho, maybe it could use a health upgrade or something but it already has a really easy time killing squads in my opinion.

The mg42 definitely needs to pin more often
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Imagelessbean
9 Jan 2015, 16:27 PM
#28
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Some really great stuff in OP. I was actually about to do the same thing today. Other things that Wehr needs to be looked at:

Sniper - Although responsive and devastating when at max range, it is extremely hard to use, is hard countered by an entire Soviet tier, and can die to a single CE volley. Needs armor/received accuracy bonuses.

Stug - Not sure what to do with this unit, but I would like to see it become common. It and the Panzer IV should be the most common armored units.

All of T3 is hard countered by American Jackson.

All of T4 is too expensive for cost. Either teching costs need to be adjusted or unit costs need to be adjusted.

Call-ins:
TA is too good against American faction, it ranges with TD's.
Elephant is too slow and is an extremely niche unit. Honestly, I don't really care. I wish this unit had never made it into the game.
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dbmb
9 Jan 2015, 16:33 PM
#29
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Great post, and thanks for helping mainting the CoH2 bug list
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akula
9 Jan 2015, 16:33 PM
#30
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move flame ht to tier 2 and increase to 150 munitions
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BeltFedWombat
9 Jan 2015, 16:58 PM
#31
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Grens should have more flexible weapon loadouts, choose (after T1) MG42, G43 or *MP40*
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some one
9 Jan 2015, 17:16 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2015, 16:27 PMImagelessbean

Elephant is too slow and is an extremely niche unit. Honestly, I don't really care. I wish this unit had never made it into the game.


just give it HE shells and you will see it very often. :)
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Ducati
9 Jan 2015, 17:17 PM
#33
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I wholeheartedly agree with the HMG, PG cost/survivability, FHT, & 105mm points.

I am unsure about the Gren sandbag issue, but I think it would be worth trying.

I'm of the opinion that the call in issue needs to be addressed before the other items are touched. Before call in's dominated each game, T3 & T4 timing and unit performance were in a pretty good spot.
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daspoulos
9 Jan 2015, 20:01 PM
#34
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For the most part you are right.
For grens I think they are ok, just wish the g43s were a better upgrade.
For the mg42 its mostly the traverse speed being so slow, also slight suppression buff because occasionally riflemen take 2 bursts to suppress.
The 222 I propose an armor buff from 9 to 11, autocannon damage back to 25 from 20, and a health increase from 200 to 240. Fuel increase by 10.
Panzergrenadiers either need received accuracy to .75, or a mid range dps boost, because they still don't really feel like mid range troops and are kind of weak.
Panther is fine, if not the frontal armor is too high and could be put back at 290, just t4 teching costs is too much.
I agree with FHT, also I'd like to add in the brummbar is now almost entirely useless vs tanks unlike before and is not that great against infantry for the cost, I'd rather this unit be buffed or get a cost decrease to 145 fuel, because imo 160 fuel is way too much.
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Svalbard SD
9 Jan 2015, 21:57 PM
#35
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Nice thread, and thanks for linking the issue tracker - I had no idea something like that existed. Re: your suggestions - agreed with most of them and voted for.
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UGBEAR
9 Jan 2015, 23:20 PM
#36
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2015, 06:44 AMKhan
Great points, well made. I sincerely hope Relic is working on a BIG balance patch that addresses these issues (among others) and makes Wehrmacht viable to play again.


but when, there was supposed to be a balance patch in December, but never happened
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 18:05 PMd0ggY
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think


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CasTroy
10 Jan 2015, 00:16 AM
#37
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2015, 23:20 PMUGBEAR
but when, there was supposed to be a balance patch in December, but never happened


They meant December 2015... :rofl::lolol: (Could not resist.)

Honestly, I hope they will work on it since they are back from christmas vacation.
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Mr. Someguy
10 Jan 2015, 00:27 AM
#38
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It wasn't supposed to be in December, there was a misunderstanding. They said they would switch back to balance focus soon, then announced the December patch. Afaik they never had any intention of doing balance in the December patch.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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austerlitz
10 Jan 2015, 01:00 AM
#39
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Nothing will happen,i have posted threads on wehrmacht problems for months..nothing has ever changed.Above all the teching costs are unsustainable.
And don't get me started on mg42popcorn-sprayer or the 221autofartcannon.
Nothing can help wehrmacht atm,it has no chance vs any half competent rifle user or microed conspam.Ur grenadiers are useless because the enemy can close distance and swarm you without taking any major damage.Even pak can only keep a light vehicle back atm,no longer kill it.And u litrally chew ur lip off to get to it when rifles are breathing down ur neck the whole time ur teching with no gain,while he's getting free units.
Even ur 'advanced infantry' pzgrens are also helpless vs rifles and brutal reinforce and cost-fuck this.
Oh wait,forgot, 66% of ur unit roster are redundant fossils.
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austerlitz
10 Jan 2015, 01:06 AM
#40
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Stug needs a penetration buff,or camo at vet 1.Still will be 2 shotted by jackson,but that's that.

Only way to make FHT timing right i feel is to make upgrade available after u have built any other unit from t2,this will make it not come too fast,not too late.
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