Howitzer Tank Overperforming

Today I learned the Scott was OP. All this time I had considered it pretty much worthless in 1vs1 ever since the great direct fire nerf because the Sherman does the exact same thing while also being able to crush and having double the health pool and crappy AT on demand.

I see Scott as the (only) USF anti-infantry vehicle for late game teamgames where shermans have the life expectancy of an ostheer sniper in the middle of a rifleblob.

let me translate this:

"Ciez is a pro player. Cies disagrees so the Ubersoldaten are not op because Ciez is a pro and the opinion of a pro is right and if 1000 people say something other they are idiots and have no rights to discuss balance because they are not pros."

I've said numerous times in the past that Obers are OP - and I've also given many suggestions on how to nerf them. I didn't directly say "omg Obers are OP" in this thread because it wasn't relevant to the thread until you randomly brought up this goofy example. They're quite high on my list of Axis units that should be toned down.

Today I learned the Scott was OP. All this time I had considered it pretty much worthless in 1vs1 ever since the great direct fire nerf because the Sherman does the exact same thing while also being able to crush and having double the health pool and crappy AT on demand.

I see Scott as the (only) USF anti-infantry vehicle for late game teamgames where shermans have the life expectancy of an ostheer sniper in the middle of a rifleblob.

Scotts are probably better in team games than 1v1s but they're still strong on the right maps (Semos/La Gleize/Stalingrad come to mind). I think Aimstrong had a 30+ kill Scott in his 1v1 against OMGPOP in the most recent tourney.

You yoursefl mentioned ISU (but not KT, I just wonder why).

Of course KT is a way more expensive, that's why it wipes everything, has nice reload duration, armor, turret, penetration... Everything. One-unit army.
You need 120 fuel to unlock KT but how many fuel you need to unlock M8? 140 or... 170! and 13 pop cap....

I think I would hesitate between M8 and Stuka if I could choose.

I was watching yesterday stream of Romeo. He made M8 and was missing all the time ^^

I mentioned the *old* ISU when saying that the only unit I can think of that randomly wipes squads more often than the M8 was the old ISU. Nothing, not even the KT, has ever come close to wiping squads as often as the pre-patch ISU.

And I think that was your attempt at subtly calling me and Axis fanboy? Maybe not... not sure how to take it.

Oh, and last time I checked 40 + 40 + 90 is more than 120. Although I'm not sure why the amount of fuel required to unlock something is at all relevant to the discussion at hand... No matter how you try and spin it, the KT is the most expensive tank in the game - so it should be the best individual tank in the game. Contrary to your belief, it's actually pretty damn counter-able.

I mentioned the *old* ISU when saying that the only unit I can think of that randomly wipes squads more often than the M8 was the old ISU. Nothing, not even the KT, has ever come close to wiping squads as often as the pre-patch ISU.

And I think that was your attempt at subtly calling me and Axis fanboy? Maybe not... not sure how to take it.

Oh, and last time I checked 40 + 40 + 90 is more than 120. Although I'm not sure why the amount of fuel required to unlock something is at all relevant to the discussion at hand... No matter how you try and spin it, the KT is the most expensive tank in the game - so it should be the best individual tank in the game. Contrary to your belief, it's actually pretty damn counter-able.

My bad, miss click about OKW fuel, I was thinik about something else while writing.
I'm not saying is uncounterable, Im saying that without P47 you can do nothing against decent OKW player.
Jackson? Bounce...Bounce..Bounce..Bounce.. 57mm? maybe 4-5 of them can do something. Bazookas? Yea....
Flank with Jacksons? Schrecks blob. 5sec and Jackson is dead. It's a way better for Soviets, they have few option to counter KT.
IS2, ISU, B4.
As USF? Lucky flank so schrecks won't get you or P47 and pray Jackson will finish it.

I'm nor arguing it should not be best tank - it should but I remember when people were saying that ISU is most expensive assault gun so it should be best. Well... ISU got nerfed because of wiping powers which King Tiger also has right now.

you only further my point by continuing to personally attack me

again, over a video game

While I don't agree with what has been exchanged between you two, Queen you really should stop playing the defensive with the whole "personal attack" exaggeration. There have been no personal attacks made in this thread at all and it's really just making you seem less credible with every post you make of such content.

Before he is vet he have no a heavy precision, you just need to pray he don't make many damage Kappa. But if he have no sherman fast, you need to be aggressiv with volks and obers, you have the superiority.

Also i prefer a scott start than a sherman start when you have no panther ready ( a mobil counter ). Sherman can also crush infantery too. It's Op when you have only inf with no faust.

When the secound sherman come if you have no panther ready, you are in a big trouble Kappa

Post #62 is defamatory and invised. Post #65 quotes post #62 and also goes.

You may guess by whom these two posts were written.

Please keep this thread clean

Back to topic

hold on just a second...

invised the root of the issue on the first page.

bloodnok beat me to second page.

now you can go back on topic

I think its important to compare units to their alternatives and use specifics rather than speaking about fast good bad small large. These are the AOE numbers at which these units do 80 damage AKA kill full hp models, basically the AOE at which they 1 shot(scatter matters for consistency but this is potential with good RNG)

7.3 Sturmtiger
2.575 ISU152
2.35 KV2
2.05 KT
1.975 105 Sherman
1.95 Brumbar
1.75 Is-2
1.5 Katusha
1.45 tiger
*1.4 scott*
1.325 Sherman HE
1.125 Panzer 4
1.1 T34
1.1 T34-85
1.0 Stug E
.875 ez8/Soviet Sherman/Sherman AP rounds
.75 command p4
.65 ISU AP
.425 Stuart
.175 panther

When i saw this thread i was like Garden no scotts aren't OP i don't even build that pudding. However it is right next to the tiger, and higher than every medium tank on this list in terms of 1 shot potential.(or course mgs play a part on those tanks though)
I don't like that this unit has arc fire, it feels weird for a light vehicle its not a brumbar/dozer. I believe the unit should do less damage(80-100 instead of 120) but return it to direct fire so it will be less potent but function as a more versitle and reliable vehicle. It will pop units with lower damage but the damage will be consistent since it won't be slow and inaccurate vs moving units.(which is why i generally don't build it often now)

Anti infantry support vehicle counters infantry!
RERIK NURF NAO!

I think its important to compare units to their alternatives and use specifics rather than speaking about fast good bad small large. These are the AOE numbers at which these units do 80 damage AKA kill full hp models, basically the AOE at which they 1 shot(scatter matters for consistency but this is potential with good RNG)

7.3 Sturmtiger
2.575 ISU152
2.35 KV2
2.05 KT
1.975 105 Sherman
1.95 Brumbar
1.75 Is-2
1.5 Katusha
1.45 tiger
*1.4 scott*
1.325 Sherman HE
1.125 Panzer 4
1.1 T34
1.1 T34-85
1.0 Stug E
.875 ez8/Soviet Sherman/Sherman AP rounds
.75 command p4
.65 ISU AP
.425 Stuart
.175 panther

When i saw this thread i was like Garden no scotts aren't OP i don't even build that pudding. However it is right next to the tiger, and higher than every medium tank on this list in terms of 1 shot potential.(or course mgs play a part on those tanks though)
I don't like that this unit has arc fire, it feels weird for a light vehicle its not a brumbar/dozer. I believe the unit should do less damage(80-100 instead of 120) but return it to direct fire so it will be less potent but function as a more versitle and reliable vehicle. It will pop units with lower damage but the damage will be consistent since it won't be slow and inaccurate vs moving units.(which is why i generally don't build it often now)

Nice numbers to give us more concrete data to work with in the thread, thanks Honeynuts.

The Scott also has 60 range (20 range advantage over the Tiger/Is-2/mediums) and shoots super fast. Like every 2.something seconds. Too lazy from last night's partying to look up the exact value of the reload

Anti infantry support vehicle counters infantry!
RERIK NURF NAO!

There's a big difference between countering infantry and consistently 1 shotting squads with no way to predict or react... from 60 range... and behind buildings/shot blockers.

Less sarcasm please. Us adults are trying to have a legitimate balance/game design discussion here.

There's a big difference between countering infantry and consistently 1 shotting squads with no way to predict or react... from 60 range... and behind buildings/shot blockers.

Less sarcasm please. Us adults are trying to have a legitimate balance/game design discussion here.

I will use sarcasm as much as I want to and will do so if people will keep being completely unreasonable, overreacting and ignoring completely real issue while bitching for nerfs left and right.

There is nothing wrong about Scott, but you know what would fix everything? Changing squad spread out of cover, so entities don't feel uncomfortable when the distance between them is longer then length of their wee wees.

Why paras can walk around in a nice, spread formation but all other infantry have to butt hump each other at all times, cover or not?

This is the problem here, not M8, USF needs to have something to fight ubers, rifles can't do it, tanks can't do it because of AT, they don't have snipers, HMGs are extremely squishy and USF doesn't have AI mines or pwerfer/stuka/katy like vehicle to punish infantry without risking a loss of armor.

Let me help - it's New Year. so ultra soft moderation for today only

QueenR and Basilone: please sing along together on this, in unison, and then the magic invis fairy will not need to flutter her wings (you have awoken the creature from hibernation, with your rising tempers)



Deal?

Wait, why the fuck you inviss all my stuff with only 5% of the content including flaming, but the other 80% is purely constructive.

But now THESE ARE PURE FLAMING, you don't give a shit.
Fairness FFS, or you, yourself are Allies biased too hur?

Anti infantry support vehicle counters infantry!
RERIK NURF NAO!

If you don't count THIS SHIT as trolling, I really doubt your fairness of moderation, bro.

Wait, why the fuck you inviss all my stuff with only 5% of the content including flaming, but the other 80% is purely constructive.

But now THESE ARE PURE FLAMING, you don't give a shit.
Fairness FFS, or you, yourself are Allies biased too hur?



If you don't count THIS SHIT as trolling, I really doubt your fairness of moderation, bro.

Hi Pory!

Calm down M8! Upon reviewing reports, I see that only tonight, I passed over a complaint against you (before you wrote this complaint).

If you object to decisions, as you clearly do, PM me, or take it to Higher Admin

the Stuka nuclear bomb launcher is fine.. oh wait

LOL

The Stuka:
1) Requires you to anticipate enemy movement and AIM
2) Long cooldown
3) Once you hear it firing you just move or retreat
4) Used well vs players who are not paying attention its very good. It is quite easy to dodge though and you'd only lose a few men if you retreat.
5) The Stuka locks down while it fires making it extremely vulnerable and it dies in 2 shots from anything.

The Scott:
1) No aiming
2) No cooldown
3) Moving or retreating won't save you usually
4) No skill, just sit it in the back of your units and watch it wipe squads. Once you hear the POP from its gun Relic has already rolled the RNG dice and decided your units fate.
5) Extremely mobile, no lockdown or slowing down to fire making it extremely difficult to flank or rush.

the scott has literally the same hp lol, scott is constantly on the battlefield at 60 range while the stuka is in active battlefield once in 120 seconds still behind friendly lines.
You should shoot stukas at support weapons that wont retreat in time. but if you shoot at infantry good players will aim down the retreat path. When you fire your barrage just shift retreat back to base to hide for next 100 seconds.
Point is you should never lose a stuka while losing scotss is much much more likely

Scotts are too strong yes but they arent really that survivable, jp4 eats them for breakfast same with panthers while you flank with volk schreks

Right, let's assume for a second that we nerf the M8s range to 40 and reduce it's AoE to 1.

Now, what is the point of the unit, and what business does it have sitting in T4? Seriously, what's its point then? And what are the Americans to do lategame when facing down hordes of HUEtastic Axis infantry? Pray to RNGesus that you have 4 double BAR'd vet3 riflemen that somehow don't get instanuked? Bear in mind that Pz IVs and the like are pretty snappy at nuking Riflemen in one shot as well.