Proposed change to COH2

I have been thinking about the flaws of coh2 in its commanders and call ins system. These are the proposed changes and why they will bring a game I think will be much more fun because of two major traits that bring a good rts game: variety and balance

All call ins are abolished except for partisani and ostruppen. Commanders are still alive, and we will see why.

Let us go through the new buildings for the main two factions, as I will only cover these now for ostheer and soviets.

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Soviet players can build any base t2-t4, and then once that is done can build t5

soviet t1: conscriptniky/ engineer/ Maxim mg: this is an old relic ready for battle at the start of the war and for each skirmish in a infantry company

t2: snipers/ penal battalion/ m3/ all commander reliant infantry unless specified in another building/ 47 mm at gun(not commander reliant now)

t3: dshk hmg(commander)/ Zis-3/ 81mm mortar/ 120mm mortar(commander)/ t-70: this is placed here to reflect the large presence of light tanks in the soviet army early war, and give the germans a need to have some type of AT early on (if the t-70 is built)/ guard rifle (commander)

t4: t-34/ m5/ shock troop(commander): placed here as shock troop would of been a later war conquest type of unit for the soviet army pushing back on the germans, and allow for the germans to not get ownt by shock troops early on/ KV-1(commander)/ su-76

t5: IS-2(notice this isnt commander reliant anymore)/ t-34-85(commander)/isu-152(commander)/ katyusha/ su-85

Other changes:

Community defense tactics now has the dshk at one CP and tank traps can be built by combat engineers for any commander, resulting in a free slot in community defense filled by an il-2 anti-tank bomblets strike, while the other slot for the 47 mm is filled with conscript dp machine gun upgrade ability

Conscripts now have the following upgrades: One DP mg (commander reliant) or ppsh(no commander needed), molotovs or grenades, AT grenade

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Ostheer

Same rules for buildings and having to upgrade tier to get a new building, but now when upgraded once germans can decide between a more static (tier 2) or more mobile approach (tier 3)

teching up costs much more from t3/t2 to t4 compared to the other tech ups to encourage german players to consider using the earlier options and having heavy tanks not dominate the game

t1: pioneers/ grenadiers/ scout car/ assgren(commander)

t2: MG 42/ mortar/ Pak 40: The germans may deal with the t-70s and the new t-34 rush with the new building system this way, and dig in early characterizing the more static and defensive ostheer forces/ half-track/ mortar half track(commander)/ stug/ stug e(commander)

t3: panzer gren/ puma(commander)/ command panzer 4(commander)/ panzerwerfer/ panzer 4/ flakpanzer/ sniper

t4: Elefant: the grand old elefant is back without a commander restriction, ready to take on the is-2 that comes out without restriction now/ panther/ tiger(commander)/ brummbar

Other changes:

Various commander changes because of units now not needing to have a commander to use

Tank traps may be built by pioneers no matter what

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I know that my changes have no chance of being implemented, but I still wanted to share these ideas. I think it would at least for me make the game a lot more fun with more variety to gameplay, as the meta now seems to suffer from...

Different types of spam: maxim spam, volks and other unit OKW blobs, conscript spam is fine however since it's soviets (you should know why)

Call in meta: Using stock soviet at is not effective compared to having a commander take care of your game. This leaves behind commanders like community defensive doctrine and others because they don't have that nice t-34-85 or is-2 call in. German commanders are in a better(?) state because you still have the panther to call in, all though the grand tiger call in meta was around for a while

Stagnation to a few reliable strategies is death to an rts for me. I like to have a huge variety of options that work well. Commanders are necessary to simplify the game for players and make balancing easier, although I do not like having them cost money or have to get from a drop to have. It would promote gameplay variety if all commanders made were unlocked for everyone. This would not take away incentive for relic to create new commanders as one could still pay for DLC like the WFA(15 dollars USD).

Thank you for taking a look. If you do not think these changes would benefit, or have some type of suggestion, please tell why in the posts below so we may think about the possibility of changes more.

I have been thinking about the flaws of coh2 in its commanders and call ins system. These are the proposed changes and why they will bring a game I think will be much more fun because of two major traits that bring a good rts game: variety and balance

All call ins are abolished except for partisani and ostruppen. Commanders are still alive, and we will see why.

Let us go through the new buildings for the main two factions, as I will only cover these now for ostheer and soviets.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Soviet players can build any base t2-t4, and then once that is done can build t5

soviet t1: conscriptniky/ engineer/ Maxim mg: this is an old relic ready for battle at the start of the war and for each skirmish in a infantry company

t2: snipers/ penal battalion/ m3/ all commander reliant infantry unless specified in another building/ 47 mm at gun(not commander reliant now)

t3: dshk hmg(commander)/ Zis-3/ 81mm mortar/ 120mm mortar(commander)/ t-70: this is placed here to reflect the large presence of light tanks in the soviet army early war, and give the germans a need to have some type of AT early on (if the t-70 is built)/ guard rifle (commander)

t4: t-34/ m5/ shock troop(commander): placed here as shock troop would of been a later war conquest type of unit for the soviet army pushing back on the germans, and allow for the germans to not get ownt by shock troops early on/ KV-1(commander)/ su-76

t5: IS-2(notice this isnt commander reliant anymore)/ t-34-85(commander)/isu-152(commander)/ katyusha/ su-85

Other changes:

Community defense tactics now has the dshk at one CP and tank traps can be built by combat engineers for any commander, resulting in a free slot in community defense filled by an il-2 anti-tank bomblets strike, while the other slot for the 47 mm is filled with conscript dp machine gun upgrade ability

Conscripts now have the following upgrades: One DP mg (commander reliant) or ppsh(no commander needed), molotovs or grenades, AT grenade

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ostheer

Same rules for buildings and having to upgrade tier to get a new building, but now when upgraded once germans can decide between a more static (tier 2) or more mobile approach (tier 3)

teching up costs much more from t3/t2 to t4 compared to the other tech ups to encourage german players to consider using the earlier options and having heavy tanks not dominate the game

t1: pioneers/ grenadiers/ scout car/ assgren(commander)

t2: MG 42/ mortar/ Pak 40: The germans may deal with the t-70s and the new t-34 rush with the new building system this way, and dig in early characterizing the more static and defensive ostheer forces/ half-track/ mortar half track(commander)/ stug/ stug e(commander)

t3: panzer gren/ puma(commander)/ command panzer 4(commander)/ panzerwerfer/ panzer 4/ flakpanzer/ sniper

t4: Elefant: the grand old elefant is back without a commander restriction, ready to take on the is-2 that comes out without restriction now/ panther/ tiger(commander)/ brummbar

Other changes:

Various commander changes because of units now not needing to have a commander to use

Tank traps may be built by pioneers no matter what

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know that my changes have no chance of being implemented, but I still wanted to share these ideas. I think it would at least for me make the game a lot more fun with more variety to gameplay, as the meta now seems to suffer from...

Different types of spam: maxim spam, volks and other unit OKW blobs, conscript spam is fine however since it's soviets (you should know why)

Call in meta: Using stock soviet at is not effective compared to having a commander take care of your game. This leaves behind commanders like community defensive doctrine and others because they don't have that nice t-34-85 or is-2 call in. German commanders are in a better(?) state because you still have the panther to call in, all though the grand tiger call in meta was around for a while

Stagnation to a few reliable strategies is death to an rts for me. I like to have a huge variety of options that work well. Commanders are necessary to simplify the game for players and make balancing easier, although I do not like having them cost money or have to get from a drop to have. It would promote gameplay variety if all commanders made were unlocked for everyone. This would not take away incentive for relic to create new commanders as one could still pay for DLC like the WFA(15 dollars USD).

Thank you for taking a look. If you do not think these changes would benefit, or have some type of suggestion, please tell why in the posts below so we may think about the possibility of changes more.

I think those are very good ideas. I like the sound of doctrinal units shown in tiers and then the rest of the commander slots get filled up with abilities. (I just hope if relic does do this it won't be useless abilities)

I think those are very good ideas. I like the sound of doctrinal units shown in tiers and then the rest of the commander slots get filled up with abilities. (I just hope if relic does do this it won't be useless abilities)

What I have still relies on commanders for the special units. I considered doctrine units being always available in tiers, but turned this down because I wanted to limit the variety just a little bit to simplify things(there are still a few doctrine units taken to always available status). What I have put down is just a rough-draft for changes, but having new things like conscripts with a dp or a few ppsh's with the commander changes is attractive to me, while the other changes like a more interesting whermact tech up with a choice is something that could be interesting.

A scout car and maxim in the very beginning would break from the start game that many people may actually miss however. COH1 nostalgics will remember games starting with infantry combat and it having a big impact on the outcome of the game, and the scout car/maxim available right away that could go strait to t-70/t-34/stug is something that deviates more from this. I think that having AT guns/panzershrek available more or less right away basically and effectively will temper this.

You may have noticed that I at the very least wanted the community defense doctrine workable compared to the more effective call in tank commanders, if relic were to do anything.

I don't think they will rework tiers, ppl complaining the allied tier structure is gimped like years ago, they don't give a shit about it. Probably a new payed faction will solve the problem

No matter the chance of this getting implemented in the base game, there is always modding...

Nonetheless I like these suggestions. Having more varied units at your disposal and instead of your playing being set in stone by a single choice of commander we can now see economy being the restriction on what units you call out. "I can get a Panther now or an Elephant in 5 mins.."
Decisions like that promotes varied play in my mind.

With these teching changes, and subsequent changes to unit cost for balance you can get an extension of the mid-game. And a less focus on heavy call-ins.

I don't know about others but I love those games where medium tanks ping at eachother and placement and movement is more important than sheer weight of armour and firepower.

On an unrelated and slightly off-topic note, I would like to see a steep increase in price for all heavies and TDs, maybe a little on for the only intermediate med-heavy tank, the Panther.
(And yes I do realise this is an issue for OKW, rework on that faction would have to be done.)
Rather than 8-10 mins of early, 4-5 mins of mid and 30 mins of lategame. Id love to see the mid game extended to be much longer. Make the heavies a rare and powerful sight! Get some love for the P-IV, Stug, T-34, Sherman.

No matter the chance of this getting implemented in the base game, there is always modding...

Nonetheless I like these suggestions. Having more varied units at your disposal and instead of your playing being set in stone by a single choice of commander we can now see economy being the restriction on what units you call out. "I can get a Panther now or an Elephant in 5 mins.."
Decisions like that promotes varied play in my mind.

With these teching changes, and subsequent changes to unit cost for balance you can get an extension of the mid-game. And a less focus on heavy call-ins.

I don't know about others but I love those games where medium tanks ping at eachother and placement and movement is more important than sheer weight of armour and firepower.

On an unrelated and slightly off-topic note, I would like to see a steep increase in price for all heavies and TDs, maybe a little on for the only intermediate med-heavy tank, the Panther.
(And yes I do realise this is an issue for OKW, rework on that faction would have to be done.)
Rather than 8-10 mins of early, 4-5 mins of mid and 30 mins of lategame. Id love to see the mid game extended to be much longer. Make the heavies a rare and powerful sight! Get some love for the P-IV, Stug, T-34, Sherman.

I am extremely like minded on the mid game combat being lengthened. Part of my suggestion was sort of hidden, including a tough cost to get to the heavy tank tier. My implementation has this tough cost to make going heavy tanks either with a heavier upgrade fee or a heavier cost for heavies. Although heavies are counterable, it would be nice to see less of them and more of the combat you speak of, and more of scout car/ light tank action possibly.

OKW relies on the big boys for late game, (and unfortunately a kind of weird blobby infantry thing ATM), so with changes OKW the big focus would be an encouragement of using the pz 4 ausf j and jpz 4. The pz 4 ausf j and other late war panzer 4s were numerous, veteran tanks, and panzers 4 still amazingly in production in 1944, upgraded to the late war standard.

I actually like ur ideas very much for a 5 tier soviet faction. It would make a lot of sense structurally unlike the current system of organization.

Now we have mod tools someone skilled enough can try this