Doctrines that hard-counter other doctrines
23 Dec 2014, 15:11 PM
#21
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Somenbjorn, there is a misteake. Frag bomb will decrew B4 most of the time.
23 Dec 2014, 16:08 PM
#22
Posts: 62
REPOST from old B-4 thread. Shorthand guide to counter and or negate the B-4
1) Don't blob. I giggle everytime I see a blob in the LOF. I laugh like a maniac when I see said blob disappear in a cloud of limps and XP markers. Don't blob and 90 muni is expensive for a single Volks, maybe not ober, but definatly the regular infantry.
2) Shift your direction of the main armour strike. What I want to see is the enemy attacking time and time again on the same place. the I don't have to move the Big Beloved B-4. Moving this fattie takes ages. Seriously 20 seconds, but shifting focus and keep moving means I have to reposition it AGAIN and the difficulty for me to effectivly give fire is reduced.
3) If you retreat a heavy tank that is damaged and I don't know where it went, your repair truck might look like a juciy target. Don't place units in obvious places. Equally if you have felt Stalins sledgehammer blow down upon you, you might wanna rethink retreating infantry to your forward HQ. If you love me you will not move the retreatpoint and I get to see your army go flying.
Also if you have a damaged tank and you start seeing recon aircraft, keep moving them around, shoot the plane and stop somewhere nice to repair, this makes me hate you. If this happens I will do a regular strike in your general direction and donate a pound of butter to Gaben so that RNG will bless me with a hit.
4) Call in the Luftwaffe. Fuck you Göring! Fuck your 50kg bomb and fuck your siren. I hate you.
5) Realise that I have the choice of either hitting your rear area or keeping my B-4 snuggly close to my base, but then not reaching more than your frontlines. (Thats from 4v4 not true in certain 2v2 maps. )
6) Fallshirms, I will burn/blow up/piss on any house behind it. Garden them fallshirms for wiping my crew. Also anything that wipes the crew is a bitch, that is stuka zu fuss, (range a problem? see 5) ) Light artillery barrage, which used to destroy it aswell, now it will most likely decrew it. Fragmentation runs will not decrew it most of the time, put that muni somewhere else.
This. Yeah if you can't hard counter it, play around it if you don't you lose your Tigers. You can't expect your heavies or blobs to last long if they just wait for that B-4 shell.
I had a team mate who lost three or or more tigers because he left them stationary ... I told him to keep on moving but he just left them stationary for too long.
23 Dec 2014, 20:52 PM
#23
Posts: 1026
Several people ITT have said they think I'm saying B4 needs to not be counterable or such things. This isn't supposed to be a B4 balance thread, I was just using that to illustrate the broader idea of some doctrines just absolutely wrecking other doctrines.
I feel like all core armies should have the tools to be an effective fighting force, and you should not need to have one specific doctrine to counter something. B4 is a funny case because it's 100% worthless against the doctrines with divebombing, yet is stupidly good against anything else. It's such a fucking good counter to low and mid tier players in the current team game metas.
If you want to know what my thoughts are on the B4 - it needs a nerf, but artillery also needs to be both easier to counter WITHOUT doctrines, but not completely useless against certain docs, too.
The overall problem, not just B4 specifically, would be the reliance on doctrines and doctrinal call ins. This is more of a problem for Soviets than it is for Ostheer by nature.
I feel like all core armies should have the tools to be an effective fighting force, and you should not need to have one specific doctrine to counter something. B4 is a funny case because it's 100% worthless against the doctrines with divebombing, yet is stupidly good against anything else. It's such a fucking good counter to low and mid tier players in the current team game metas.
If you want to know what my thoughts are on the B4 - it needs a nerf, but artillery also needs to be both easier to counter WITHOUT doctrines, but not completely useless against certain docs, too.
The overall problem, not just B4 specifically, would be the reliance on doctrines and doctrinal call ins. This is more of a problem for Soviets than it is for Ostheer by nature.
23 Dec 2014, 23:25 PM
#24
Posts: 509 | Subs: 1
Being able to kill any artillery with 2 clicks is just dumb. You can kill b4 attacking base of the enemy (with rush or not) like in the oldies in coh1. But in coh2 everything is easier and you need less skill to do anything.
23 Dec 2014, 23:48 PM
#25
Posts: 2070
Commanders should give you a strategic edge but should be countered by nondoctrinal things. RIght now, if you pick the wrong doctrine it is GG, or if you pick a good commander, it is gg for the other player
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
24 Dec 2014, 00:23 AM
#26
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Airborne against Pak43 
GL backteching captain for a Pack Howie.
GL backteching captain for a Pack Howie.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
24 Dec 2014, 07:26 AM
#27
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
So its OK for the B4 to be a hard counter, but not for the stuka doctrine.
Yeah, this logic it's not verry solid....
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
24 Dec 2014, 07:55 AM
#28
Posts: 2070
b4 only does well to stationary targets
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
24 Dec 2014, 11:25 AM
#29
Posts: 1217
b4 only does well to stationary targetsThat´s depending on RNG and the map. I had vet0 B4s blowing up two moving sqauds way in the FOW. It was on Semoiski and it´s not hard to predict the possible movement paths there.
The presence of a B4 alone will make it hard for the German player to fight it out with the Soviet player. Good players will use the B4 sparingly for that psychological advantage of you waiting for it to be fired.
24 Dec 2014, 11:59 AM
#30
Posts: 1248
Being able to kill any artillery with 2 clicks is just dumb. You can kill b4 attacking base of the enemy (with rush or not) like in the oldies in coh1. But in coh2 everything is easier and you need less skill to do anything.
It's not easy to get a base rush/peek in coh2, which leaves the B4 usually uncounterable unless you have a stuka dive bomb or some arty that will kill the thing. The B4 is a 1 click delete unit off the match thing too, at least the axis need 2 clicks to delete it
24 Dec 2014, 13:17 PM
#31
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Spearhead > Urban Assault
25 Dec 2014, 04:46 AM
#32
Posts: 1026
b4 only does well to stationary targets
B4 is practically instant death to any stationary target but with good planning and on maps with less avenues for flanking, it's a very effective weapon even against manuevering opponents. It fires every what, 60 seconds or something? As long as it doesn't have to turn. The first shot wipe potential is off the charts and since it's refire rate is so rapid, you're getting a new chance to hit locations at a ludicrous rate.
Once I throw a B4 up, it becomes the "main" unit in my arsenal in the sense that I'm constantly repositioning it in anticipation of where the enemy will attack next. I hit moving targets (particularly blobs, but not always) really often.
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