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OKW Combined arms

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BabaRoga
23 Dec 2014, 02:26 AM
#1
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Posts: 829

So I played few games as OKW and got called for blobbing.

I had 6 different units supported by armor (Panther and Luch. whatever its called)

4 different types of infantry units, couple of raketen's and 7.5mm Lei

That's 8 different units. It's actually more different types of units than my opponents.

They are right tho, I was blobbing. It's just natural to soften with 7.5 barage, attack with inf and raketen's. As soon as trouble comes retreat everything and discourage counter with Panther and Luch.
Rinse and repeat step 1 and step 2 until opponent collapses (or you get hit by Katy or something)

Basically I was blobbing with combined arms

I am afraid to try US. Playing vs US it looked like even less interesting tactically......

:facepalm: design
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QueenRatchet123
23 Dec 2014, 02:44 AM
#2
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OKW combine arms?

WHAT COMBINED ARMS?

they just spam infantry
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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Nuclear Arbitor
23 Dec 2014, 05:12 AM
#3
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Posts: 2470

blobbing is different from spamming. it sounds like you might be been blobbing (hard with non-soviet support weapons though) but weren't spamming
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BabaRoga
23 Dec 2014, 06:03 AM
#4
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 05:12 AMNuclear Arbitor
blobbing is different from spamming. it sounds like you might be been blobbing (hard with non-soviet support weapons though) but weren't spamming


Technically you are right. Tho spamming leads into blobbing

Point is, it's very hard not to spam infantry and fight in blobbing fashion (attack and retreat en-mass) when there is very few units that offer alternative.

I am not happy with that design. It reminds me of Brit design in COH - emplacement + PE infantry


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MarcoRossolini
23 Dec 2014, 06:08 AM
#5
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I've played OKW a few times and it seems like they're increasingly required to blob as the game progresses...

Awfully designed faction...
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Alexzandvar
23 Dec 2014, 06:13 AM
#6
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The easy of infantry retention for OKW pretty much means you wont have to waste manpower replacing losses as much so you will just have giant manpower surpluses.
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JohnnyB
23 Dec 2014, 08:43 AM
#7
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So what is OKW supposed to do with that fuel shortage? Build vehicles? Combine them with infantry? Maybe some raketenwerfers <444>_<444>?

They cannot rely on anything but units buildable from mp. They are maybe overperforming, so make them buy their upgrades for obers, fallschirms, JLIs (if an 100% amo income, otherwise no way). Volks blobs? Make them less durable, like maybe 4 men per squad, but do something about that stupid raketen. These are the ways you may make an OKW player to combo more.

OKW has its design, you may like it or not, it's not gonna change. I like its design, but this is me. ...What the garden do you expect from an army conceived as if it will give its last breath? (german army '45).
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Aerohank
23 Dec 2014, 10:01 AM
#8
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OKW combined arms isn't really possible in the current design.
The most interesting feature of OKW combined arms at the moment is their vehicle repertoire. However, since all you see these days is T34/85s, EZ8s and IS-2s, you pretty much have to save up for panthers and get one at 10cp or get wrecked by some serious enemy armor. Having to save up all your fuel prevents the use of OKW light vehicles, so all you see is the same old infantry spam into heavy armor.
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bogeuh
23 Dec 2014, 10:24 AM
#9
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Posts: 89

the issue is not if there is enough combined arms

its that selecting all infantry and a-moving forward is so effective

and the blob keeps comming back with more units and more vet

the only thing that works against it is getting squadwipes

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Jorad
23 Dec 2014, 10:54 AM
#10
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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 10:24 AMbogeuh
the issue is not if there is enough combined arms

its that selecting all infantry and a-moving forward is so effective

and the blob keeps comming back with more units and more vet

the only thing that works against it is getting squadwipes



This. To add one more thing in my book if someone uses 6 volks but attacks from six directions and overwhelms the enemy and encircles his position is not blobbing but tactics. But if you attack from one direction its blobing. Easy definition.
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Australian Magic
23 Dec 2014, 11:11 AM
#11
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OKW combined arms looks, most of the time, like this:

Volks/Kubel, Volks, Volks, Volks -> Luchs/Obers, Obers, Obers -> Panther.

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ThoseDeafMutes
23 Dec 2014, 11:12 AM
#12
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Posts: 1026

Based on my 2v2 Allies experience, the current meta for OKW is aggressive early Kubel play, then Volks shrek + Obers until the cows come home. The end game is panthers. I can't even tell you how many games I've won because they don't expect you to throw up a B4, and their blobs explode into tiny little chunks after one lucky hit. Actually I'm getting too complacent now and when I encountered good combined arms OH+OKW players this evening I lost pretty hard. Hate those slow, grinding losses where you hold on for an hour but just inevitably get squeezed out :*(
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Burts
23 Dec 2014, 11:23 AM
#13
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Posts: 1702

OKW combined arms doesn't exist.


I remember when people were complaining about soviets lacking combined arms due to their tier structure and being all about spam. It is somewhat true.

However, when designing OKW, they gave blob and spam a whoooole new meaning.
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Highfiveeeee
23 Dec 2014, 11:34 AM
#14
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I am trying to play combined arms with okw...
I built MGs if possible, Kübelwagen, LeIG, Raketenwerfer, Panther and sometimes even the Uhu.

The sad thing is I lose pretty often with this.
If I just blob Panzershreck Volks I win way more often.

This should not be.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'

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Sierra
23 Dec 2014, 12:18 PM
#15
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Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 11:34 AMHighfiveeeee
I am trying to play combined arms with okw...
I built MGs if possible, Kübelwagen, LeIG, Raketenwerfer, Panther and sometimes even the Uhu.

The sad thing is I lose pretty often with this.
If I just blob Panzershreck Volks I win way more often.

This should not be.



I used to play OKW often. My build order was Kubel- one extra Sturmpioneer - Volks -Volks - Medic Truck -MG-34 (one or two)- Uhu. Play with that until I had enough fuel for a Mechanized truck.

Stuka zu Fuss - Puma - Schwerer Panzer HQ

Panther.


But then the Sturmpioneers were bitched about being "OP" when they were really only good in close quarters.. and then they were nerfed. Then the Kubel was buffed to be great, then it was moderately decent, now it's "okay" but no substitute for an MG-34 team really.

MG-34 was terrible, then buffed to be as good as the MG-42, now it's kinda crappy again.

Raketenwerfer was actually decent at start, then it got nerfed, and nerfed, and nerfed some more. Now it's hot-crap.

Now I don't really play OKW anymore, I have more fun with Ostheer Close Air Support in team games.
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BabaRoga
23 Dec 2014, 12:36 PM
#16
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Posts: 829

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 12:18 PMSierra



I used to play OKW often. My build order was Kubel- one extra Sturmpioneer - Volks -Volks - Medic Truck -MG-34 (one or two)- Uhu. Play with that until I had enough fuel for a Mechanized truck.

Stuka zu Fuss - Puma - Schwerer Panzer HQ

Panther.


But then the Sturmpioneers were bitched about being "OP" when they were really only good in close quarters.. and then they were nerfed. Then the Kubel was buffed to be great, then it was moderately decent, now it's "okay" but no substitute for an MG-34 team really.

MG-34 was terrible, then buffed to be as good as the MG-42, now it's kinda crappy again.

Raketenwerfer was actually decent at start, then it got nerfed, and nerfed, and nerfed some more. Now it's hot-crap.

Now I don't really play OKW anymore, I have more fun with Ostheer Close Air Support in team games.


You are kidding right?
Kubel is just awesome and incredibly powerful early unit combined with sturmpios. Unless I fuck up terribly and lose it, that Kubel serves me very well late into the game.

Sturmpios are quite deadly AI unit that fixes armor and also detects mines. They scale well into late game and stay a must have unit entire game.

You just singled out two units that play big part in making OKW very powerful army as crap.

You don't use them as you should in my opinion
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BabaRoga
23 Dec 2014, 12:44 PM
#17
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Posts: 829

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 10:54 AMJorad


This. To add one more thing in my book if someone uses 6 volks but attacks from six directions and overwhelms the enemy and encircles his position is not blobbing but tactics. But if you attack from one direction its blobing. Easy definition.


Most players with decent skill will do what you describe. Plus take cover with their long range infantry, close in with good short range inf, throw nades, etc.

I do too, but blobbing it still is. Blobbing is large blob of infantry that shows up, does its damage and retreats to safety.
As one does not have AT guns, machine guns, mortars one does not have to worry about those getting killed/taken by enemy. While blob is getting healed and reinforced

Hence blob-ing
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BabaRoga
23 Dec 2014, 12:49 PM
#18
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Posts: 829

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 11:34 AMHighfiveeeee
I am trying to play combined arms with okw...
I built MGs if possible, Kübelwagen, LeIG, Raketenwerfer, Panther and sometimes even the Uhu.

The sad thing is I lose pretty often with this.
If I just blob Panzershreck Volks I win way more often.

This should not be.


Yes, it is very unnatural, hard and mostly results in loss. Most of vehicles outside Kubel and Luch are just hurting player as drain on fuel without much return for cost
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Sierra
23 Dec 2014, 12:52 PM
#19
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 12:36 PMBabaRoga


You are kidding right?
Kubel is just awesome and incredibly powerful early unit combined with sturmpios. Unless I fuck up terribly and lose it, that Kubel serves me very well late into the game.

Sturmpios are quite deadly AI unit that fixes armor and also detects mines. They scale well into late game and stay a must have unit entire game.

You just singled out two units that play big part in making OKW very powerful army as crap.

You don't use them as you should in my opinion


I think Sturmpioneer range being at 3 is way too low, it should go back to where it was at 8. That would make them work well at their jobs without having to basically hump the legs of any infantry they engage.

For reference, Almost all SMG users now have a range of 10! So this would still put them below them in terms of optimal damage and range, despite the fact that they use Assault Rifles.

I mean hot damn there were people saying Shocks were great except for the fact they had to hump legs to do damage! Relic has basically inflicted the past treatment of Shocktroopers onto Sturmpioneers.
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QueenRatchet123
23 Dec 2014, 13:05 PM
#20
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Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

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jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2014, 08:43 AMJohnnyB
So what is OKW supposed to do with that fuel shortage? Build vehicles? Combine them with infantry? Maybe some raketenwerfers <444>_<444>?



for the love of the RNG gods

STOP bringing up OKW resourse shortages!

it doesn't matter when okw have the cheapest t4 in the game and can convert both muni and FUEL

their prices are fit to their shortage.

if u don't believe me?

then plz explain with mg upgrades on tanks are cheaper then any other faction.

Explain why obers get their lmg for free?

explain why luchs is 50 fuel yet outperforms all other light tanks?
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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