artillery and late game squadwipes

agreed on the flamers, they should not randomly explode like they do now. Its a cool feature in theory, it SOUNDS cool, but in practice it is game-ruining.

4:57

Ofc, 4v4, huge rng luck etc etc, still German mortars disgustingly strong for their 240mp cost and equal number of Soviet mortars always loses to equal number of German mortars since precision strike nerf.

and ostheer mrotar shoots faster, so the rng will probably kick in and give u good wipe

agreed on the flamers, they should not randomly explode like they do now. Its a cool feature in theory, it SOUNDS cool, but in practice it is game-ruining.

Yes, exploding flamers on healthy squads is terrible. Its just a massive waste of munitions for no reason that also harms the squad. Its impossible to use riflemen flamers effectively because they keep exploding AND YOU STILL CANT BUY THEM BACK (must be so hard to fix... *sarcasm*).

Might as well have squads with LMG's have a chance to lose their LMG because the rest of the squad cant recover it from the dead soldier. Flamers should only explode sometimes when the last model dies.

and ostheer mrotar shoots faster, so the rng will probably kick in and give u good wipe

To wipe a soviet mortar crew, the ostheer mortar has to 1. Get in range, which is much shorter than the 82mm and 120mm, 2. Kill 5 whole members from auto firing because the german barrage has large scatter, and 3. Avoid losing 3 men to the longer range, better barrage, and higher aoe soviet mortar

OKW is just a conglomeration of abominable mechanics and poor design decisions that somehow has been barely band-aided to relevancy on the back of bullshit units.

Have an up vote.

To wipe a soviet mortar crew, the ostheer mortar has to 1. Get in range, which is much shorter than the 82mm and 120mm, 2. Kill 5 whole members from auto firing because the german barrage has large scatter, and 3. Avoid losing 3 men to the longer range, better barrage, and higher aoe soviet mortar

i assume he's talking about the 81mm. it's not as good but it's still not terrible and even with the nerf precision strike is still good.

To wipe a soviet mortar crew, the ostheer mortar has to 1. Get in range, which is much shorter than the 82mm and 120mm, 2. Kill 5 whole members from auto firing because the german barrage has large scatter, and 3. Avoid losing 3 men to the longer range, better barrage, and higher aoe soviet mortar

Why not use incendiary round from mortar half-truck?
You also don't need to worry about losing it to 120mm Soviet mortar...

And its a lot better than Soviet mortar half-truck in all key statistics

you're right, as the soviets do not have a mounted mortar.

i assume you mean the shitty US one though.

you're right, as the soviets do not have a mounted mortar.

i assume you mean the shitty US one though.

Nope. I meant the one Soviets don't have. As he included Soviet doctrinal mortar into equation with OST default mortar 'vs argument'

OST doctrinal mortar > Soviet doctrinal mortar
OST default mortar > Soviet default mortar

As far as mortars go OST > Soviets

Why not use incendiary round from mortar half-truck?
You also don't need to worry about losing it to 120mm Soviet mortar...

And its a lot better than Soviet mortar half-truck in all key statistics

because then youre forced to go spearhead. if theyre soviets, they might have a b4 that is now not counterable. mortar ht is very good, dont get me wrong.

eh, i'm not sure the MHT is better than the 120mm. they fill fairly different roles.

if theyre soviets, they might have a b4 that is now not counterable.

Ugh. I knew this was going to be brought up. Its counterable. If you are unable to coordinate doctrines with your teammate the fault is yours.

Ugh. I knew this was going to be brought up. Its counterable. If you are unable to coordinate doctrines with your teammate the fault is yours.

and which okw doctrine innately counters b4? none of them do. in fact the only guaranteed way to kill a b4 is with a sturmtiger, which wont happen in most games.

the soviet mortar isn't drastically better than the ostheer mortar lemon. Both are still rng dependent weapons, so a faster firing mortar like the ost mortar is very good.

The faster firing of the Osteer mortar is most noticeable for me games were the battle lines are very fluid and I am constantly having to move my morters, meaning the increased rate of fire allows me to get more shells off before I need to move the squad again.

Ok so everyone agrees that the reason for late game arty wipes is Relic trying to balance what would otherwise be hopless unbalance in the lategame infantry fights?

As several have said attempting to solve something that is broken with more broken stuff.
And that the only way to really fix this is to fix the two most broken factions OKW and SOV. We good on that point?


There are earlier threads on B-4 and I think also on mortars, the B-4 thread have a couple of good tips on how it is countered without Stukastrike, courtesy of yours truly. Otherwise it is easy to do a new thread on mortar balance.

Ok so everyone agrees that the reason for late game arty wipes is Relic trying to balance what would otherwise be hopless unbalance in the lategame infantry fights?

As several have said attempting to solve something that is broken with more broken stuff.
And that the only way to really fix this is to fix the two most broken factions OKW and SOV. We good on that point?


There are earlier threads on B-4 and I think also on mortars, the B-4 thread have a couple of good tips on how it is countered without Stukastrike, courtesy of yours truly. Otherwise it is easy to do a new thread on mortar balance.

Thats why they should introduce a damage cap on aoe damage profiles like they did in Warcraft 3.


In Warcraft 3, the total AOE damage possible by a single source is capped at a certain number.

What I'm suggesting is that AOE damage should be capped per SQUAD.

Example : A Conscript has 6 models of 80 hp each, making it 480 hp. But if the models are clumped, a single 80 damage grenade will wipe it. Lets say we cap the grenade damage to 300. Even if the models are very close, at least 2 would survive. Or maybe 3 would survive with less hp on each model. Calculation can vary, but you get the idea.
If it was a grenadier squad, with effective health of 320, would probably leave a single model with 20 hp by the 80 damage grenade.

Of course this is capped by squad, so if a single shell/grenade hits multiple squads it should deal damage to both squads without being capped.

It might take a step back from realism but with appropriate numbers it shouldn't be that bad, and make the game less prone to RNG-induced stress without touching the anti-blobbing power of AOE weaponry.

because then youre forced to go spearhead. if theyre soviets, they might have a b4 that is now not counterable. mortar ht is very good, dont get me wrong.

Ekhem, fragmentation bomb can decrew vetted B-4 which is almost equal to losing B4...

and which okw doctrine innately counters b4? none of them do. in fact the only guaranteed way to kill a b4 is with a sturmtiger, which wont happen in most games.

STUKA

and which okw doctrine innately counters b4? none of them do. in fact the only guaranteed way to kill a b4 is with a sturmtiger, which wont happen in most games.

Oh, if B4 is build near any point, off map fro Jadgtiger doctrine (forgot name of this off map) can wreck B4 very easily.