Was molotovs that heavy?
5 Dec 2014, 01:26 AM
#1
Posts: 680
The gesture with the arm is so big. Its to big. Even a new player will dodge it by a few meters. Its only a small bottle. Is there any historical background of the huge gesture?
5 Dec 2014, 01:32 AM
#2
Posts: 123
The gesture with the arm is so big. Its to big. Even a new player will dodge it by a few meters. Its only a small bottle. Is there any historical background of the huge gesture?
Well, they are rather crude devices compared to much smaller modern grenades. You have a flimsy, un-aerodynamic bottle filled with flammable liquid and a flaming rag sticking out of the top. I too would take caution with one of those fucking things.
5 Dec 2014, 01:58 AM
#3
Posts: 58
The molotov animation was back from when infantry lethality was low and cons could feasible run up to cover and toss it. It also gave cons a less-lethal grenade that would help grenadiers from getting overwhelmed.
Of course, DPS has been drastically increased even before WFA, and cons are a laughing joke. While charging in headfirst was never ideal, it is very difficult to not lose most of the con squad which leaves the molly a raw deal.
Of course, DPS has been drastically increased even before WFA, and cons are a laughing joke. While charging in headfirst was never ideal, it is very difficult to not lose most of the con squad which leaves the molly a raw deal.
5 Dec 2014, 10:54 AM
#4
Posts: 503
yeah its basically only useful when lobbed over shot blockers or when in green cover
5 Dec 2014, 11:00 AM
#5
Posts: 1740
You have to think about the fact that the molotov is the only grenade besides the rifle grenade that detonates on the moment it hits the ground. So it needs a more obvious animation to give the enemy the possibility to dodge it.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
5 Dec 2014, 11:17 AM
#6
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
I think that in molotov animation cons set the end of it with lighter or something thats why it takes so much time 
5 Dec 2014, 12:31 PM
#7
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
You have to think about the fact that the molotov is the only grenade besides the rifle grenade that detonates on the moment it hits the ground. So it needs a more obvious animation to give the enemy the possibility to dodge it.
But grenades make one explosion so if you won't dodge it, you can be wiped in a second.
Molotovs make damage per second so this "explosion" is not so powerful like grenades because you can lose 1 model and just step out of the fire.
5 Dec 2014, 12:42 PM
#8
Posts: 56
The gesture with the arm is so big. Its to big. Even a new player will dodge it by a few meters. Its only a small bottle. Is there any historical background of the huge gesture?
Its not a small bottle. Usually bottles of at least 0,5 l are used to make incendiaries like Molotovs. 0,75 l or 1 l is preferable.
Since the bottle is made from glass even the 0,5 l version is allready in the 1 kg range. A modern hand grenade is usually half of that, much more compact, better balanced, not breakable and not allready on fire.
Molotoves are usually thrown by lobbing in a high arc because they are rather heavy and unwieldy to get the desired range. If thrown at vehicles the roof or top is what you want to hit. Like this the burning liquid will stay on the target and propable leak into it.
Lobbing also makes sure the bottle actually will break.
If you think this is unrealistic get yourself some bottles fill them with water and test for yourself. Molotovs are not easy to use or particular effective weapons.
5 Dec 2014, 12:45 PM
#9
Posts: 760
Because people were crying about how op the Molotov was in the beta and so they nerfed it, there you have it.
5 Dec 2014, 13:01 PM
#10
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
...
Sure, but it's not about physics, history but balance. Grenades are very poweful. No matter who is throwing. Grenades can sometimes surprise you can wipe your squad.
Molotovs can't surprise You and even if, molotovs won't wipe you in a second like normal grenade.
Molotovs can't destory building (at least I did not see anything like that) while regular grenades can.
5 Dec 2014, 13:01 PM
#11
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Even a brain dead guy can dodge them, but they are fantastic area denial weapons, specially against buildings. Any decent player dodges nades and moves their unit back in cover/building, but with Molotovs that's not possible.
5 Dec 2014, 13:50 PM
#12
Posts: 56
But grenades make one explosion so if you won't dodge it, you can be wiped in a second.
Molotovs make damage per second so this "explosion" is not so powerful like grenades because you can lose 1 model and just step out of the fire.
He explicitly asked for historical background!
So yes the background is there and explains why Molotovs work the way they do in the game.
Balance is something different.
The original Molotov was ok damage and DOT wise only its absurdly high crit chance ruined it.
Remove the crit chance and speed the throw up and its fine. The firenade in CoH1 worked pretty well.
It should also be taked into account that the Molotov doesn't need to hit to work. One of its main functions is to deny cover and force an HMG to pack up and move. It does that currently.
I agree that it is not in the same league as the mini-nukes thrown around by lots of infantry in the current build... but I would rather like to see these toned down than the Molotov brough up to their level.
5 Dec 2014, 13:51 PM
#13
Posts: 1042
Sure, but it's not about physics, history but balance. Grenades are very poweful. No matter who is throwing. Grenades can sometimes surprise you can wipe your squad.
Molotovs can't surprise You and even if, molotovs won't wipe you in a second like normal grenade.
Molotovs can't destory building (at least I did not see anything like that) while regular grenades can.
You can burn down buildings with them, but you need 3-4 going off in them...
5 Dec 2014, 14:09 PM
#14
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
He explicitly asked for historical background!
So yes the background is there and explains why Molotovs work the way they do in the game.
Jackson had over 100mm front armor but we dont see such thing in game.
18 Dec 2014, 07:46 AM
#15
Posts: 344
Its not a small bottle. Usually bottles of at least 0,5 l are used to make incendiaries like Molotovs. 0,75 l or 1 l is preferable.
Since the bottle is made from glass even the 0,5 l version is allready in the 1 kg range. A modern hand grenade is usually half of that, much more compact, better balanced, not breakable and not allready on fire.
Molotoves are usually thrown by lobbing in a high arc because they are rather heavy and unwieldy to get the desired range. If thrown at vehicles the roof or top is what you want to hit. Like this the burning liquid will stay on the target and propable leak into it.
Lobbing also makes sure the bottle actually will break.
If you think this is unrealistic get yourself some bottles fill them with water and test for yourself. Molotovs are not easy to use or particular effective weapons.
LOL yes it's very difficult to throw a bottle of beer forward...
18 Dec 2014, 08:23 AM
#16
Posts: 2779
LOL yes it's very difficult to throw a bottle of beer forward...
Not when there is a burning cloth at the bottleneck, risk burning yourself.
18 Dec 2014, 10:59 AM
#17
Posts: 542
But grenades make one explosion so if you won't dodge it, you can be wiped in a second.
Molotovs make damage per second so this "explosion" is not so powerful like grenades because you can lose 1 model and just step out of the fire.
Well, fire is very random in this game... you may lose nothing, you may lose everything.
18 Dec 2014, 11:14 AM
#18
Posts: 829
Historically soldiers would run towards the guys that are shooting at them from behind wooden fence. Get to about 5-6 meters, and lob molotov between them. This would force unit out of the cover where soldiers can cause more damage then in cover.
This often didn't work out well, because soldiers would get shot to many times on approach run and would have to run back to base to heal and reinforce.
So yes, it's historically accurate.
This often didn't work out well, because soldiers would get shot to many times on approach run and would have to run back to base to heal and reinforce.
So yes, it's historically accurate.
18 Dec 2014, 11:30 AM
#19
Posts: 12
Historically, Molotovs were used against vehicles, with the aim of hitting the engine vents.
When confronting infantry, they would use proper grenades, that killed instantaneously, a much more desirable result.
The Molotov of CoH2 is asymmetric for the sake of asymmetric.
When confronting infantry, they would use proper grenades, that killed instantaneously, a much more desirable result.
The Molotov of CoH2 is asymmetric for the sake of asymmetric.
18 Dec 2014, 11:45 AM
#20
Posts: 1042
=
The Molotov of CoH2 is asymmetric for the sake of asymmetric.
And is yet another example of poor game design as a result...
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