4 things that would make CoH2 instantly better

I feel strongly, that this game would fare much better if it was called something like "The Eastern Front" and just delete the 'Company of Heroes' monicre from its name.

I don't "think" that this game has to be like vCoH to be successful, frankly my view is that vCoH will be the downfall for this game we call CoH2. I love it in its current form, and every single person I've asked in-game and after matches has thus far agreed.

So, forget talking about US vs Wehr, Britts vs PElite. This information as about as useful as discussing Eldar vs Orks, or Space Marines vs Chaos. Sure, the superficial similarities are there (squad-based combat, exp and levelling up for squads, hardcounters, soft counters, upkeep and pop cap, resource management et al) but what you're doing is using an example from one game, and force-feeding it into this one.

vCoH was "critically acclaimed." It was not "Hugely popular" nor did it earn Relic titles like "most-played game of the year", nor can Relic boast about it beating Starcraft, their defacto rival in the RTS genre when it comes to fighting over the player/genre base.

CoH2 needs to be as similar from vCoH, as it needs to be different. The overt arguments of both you and several "venerated" vCoH community spokespeople only serves to prove my point.

Your whole argument now seems to be "Oh, you didn't play vCoH? well hello, bro, this is Company of Heroes -two- meaning you need the experience from the first! D'oh" Yes I realize that is a strawman, but it very accurately portrays your argument, does it not?

This is not a sequel in terms of a continuation. This is a sequel to vCoH as much as Shogun 2 is a sequel to Rome Total War. Same studio, same genre, same stylistic approach and atleast equal amounts of hard work. But I reiterate: This is NOT a continuation of vCoH, it is an evolution of its basic principles and ideas.

CoH2 is not perfect, indeed if it is released in its current state (in terms of unit balance, and their roles) it would flop. That's just my view, though. This is not to say that the changes are inborn from being different from vCoH, quite the contrary. This game needs to be different purely to be fresh and to allow newcomers some leniancy on the learning curve.

1 - I never say "Bro"

and

2 - The fact you don't know what you're talking about - i.e. you have no appreciation for COH - basically makes your opinion worthless in a discussion of why COH2 is a failure IN COMPARISON to COH1.

Essentially it'd be me critiquing say a fictional DOW 3 - where you - as a DOW player - loved DOW and DOW 2 - yet you dislike DOW 3 - and me - with absolutely bugger all knowledge of DOW1 or 2 comes in and says how awesome DOW 3 is and that all the other DOW's are complete rubbish. That's the problem here - you don't have a grounding to make your assumptions upon - it's all simply your opinion - based on VERY LITTLE COH experience.

That said - game on and I hope you enjoy COH2.

Company of heroes was "hugely popular". Maybe not in terms of SC2 but then again vCOH was completely different and groundbreaking.

To me, it just seems CoH 2 doesn't have the replay-ability... The new features aren't "new" enough and the old formula (which made vCoH amazing) just isn't there... I played vCoH beta aND I NEVER wanted to stop. In the open beta in CoH2 I am already tired of it. It makes me sad.

I'm sorry you feel that way, after 204 hours of CoH2 I still don't see it becoming lacking in terms of replayability. Perhaps they will eventually add in 2 more factions a year down the line, but for now the only thing truly in need is more balance-tweaking. I'm not happy about the Tiger vs Panther question.

I'm sorry you feel that way, after 204 hours of CoH2 I still don't see it becoming lacking in terms of replayability. Perhaps they will eventually add in 2 more factions a year down the line, but for now the only thing truly in need is more balance-tweaking. I'm not happy about the Tiger vs Panther question.

Put 204 hours on COH 1 and then make that comparison of which is the better experience.

1 - I never say "Bro"

and

2 - The fact you don't know what you're talking about - i.e. you have no appreciation for COH - basically makes your opinion worthless in a discussion of why COH2 is a failure IN COMPARISON to COH1.

Essentially it'd be me critiquing say a fictional DOW 3 - where you - as a DOW player - loved DOW and DOW 2 - yet you dislike DOW 3 - and me - with absolutely bugger all knowledge of DOW1 or 2 comes in and says how awesome DOW 3 is and that all the other DOW's are complete rubbish. That's the problem here - you don't have a grounding to make your assumptions upon - it's all simply your opinion - based on VERY LITTLE COH experience.

That said - game on and I hope you enjoy COH2.

I'm sorry, but the differences from DoW 1 to DoW 2 are -staggering- already to begin with. One cannot even compare the two, they are that different. This in mind, the theoretical idea of a DoW 3 is pointless, as the evolution from DoW 1 to DoW 2 already could serve as a basis of argument.

DoW 1 experience compared to DoW 2, when it comes to economy, defenses (there is no base building in dow 2, there is rather extensive base building in DoW 1), units, roles of units, the way suppression works, the way commanders and sub-commanders are implemented, the way vehicles work, the way melee works, the way buffs/debuffs both work and are applied, the role of global buffs and choosing a commander before you even begin the game (you chose your tech mid-game in DoW 1) are completely and utterly rubbish.

Let me reiterate that one for you: DoW 1 experience served zero function in DoW 2, save for the basics of mouse-clicking and hotkeys that are shared in practically all competitive RTS titles.

vCoH->CoH2 differences and these things you are complaining about already happened in DoW1->DoW2. If you want to base anything here on "experience", base it off the experience I have of Relic as a company. They've done this before, and it was wonderful. I have faith it will work here aswell.

I'm sorry, but the differences from DoW 1 to DoW 2 are -staggering- already to begin with. One cannot even compare the two, they are that different. This in mind, the theoretical idea of a DoW 3 is pointless, as the evolution from DoW 1 to DoW 2 already could serve as a basis of argument.

DoW 1 experience compared to DoW 2, when it comes to economy, defenses (there is no base building in dow 2, there is rather extensive base building in DoW 1), units, roles of units, the way suppression works, the way commanders and sub-commanders are implemented, the way vehicles work, the way melee works, the way buffs/debuffs both work and are applied, the role of global buffs and choosing a commander before you even begin the game (you chose your tech mid-game in DoW 1) are completely and utterly rubbish.

Let me reiterate that one for you: DoW 1 experience served zero function in DoW 2, save for the basics of mouse-clicking and hotkeys that are shared in practically all competitive RTS titles.

vCoH->CoH2 differences and these things you are complaining about already happened in DoW1->DoW2. If you want to base anything here on "experience", base it off the experience I have of Relic as a company. They've done this before, and it was wonderful. I have faith it will work here aswell.

Seriously mate - you missed my point COMPLETELY.

I have absolutely NO INTEREST in your DOW - I was using it as an example of somebody trying to argue something is better than something else with NOT HAVING ANY IDEA of how hood the other item was in comparison.

You get what I'm talking about?

Example - Porsche's are sh!t cars - Though I've never owned or driven a Porshce.
Example - France isn't as good to travel as Italy - Though I've never traveled Italy.

YOUR EXAMPLE

COH2 is a much better game than COH1 - BUT I'VE NEVER REALLY PLAYED COH1.

The game would not "fare much better," it would just get a lot less criticism from people like me and Nullist who really loved Company of Heroes and wish we could get another game that good. You're right that this is not a continuation of vCoH, but calling it an "evolution of its basic principles and ideas" is sort of vague. If CoH 2 is an evolution, then so is Dawn of War 2.

The basic point is that CoH 2 is quite different in a few ways and the ways in which it is different happens to break many of the things that people loved the most about vCoH, and in place we get a fairly mediocre to good RTS game that's nowhere near as tremendous as vCoH. This is disappointing because this is a sequel years later, when you'd think Relic would have the time to learn from vCoH, OF, and ToV, and take the best of everything (or in other words take the best of vCoH).

Dawn of War 2 -is- an evolution. If you have 20 dollars I suggest you play around 5 hours of DoW 1 then compare your experiences there to DoW 2, I guarantee you will fully grasp what I meant with the quote you cited.

Basic principles and ideas: Squad-based ww2 semi-realistic combat with complex damage systems when it comes to vehicles, several types of damage that go beyond "explosive" and "pew pew", hardcounters to tanks i.e. Elefant, softcounters to vehicles i.e. T0 Panzerfaust/AT Grenade, several types of resources to micro-manage, risk-assessment when it comes to "should I build eco or more units?", global abilities determined by the commander you choose, commander-specific units and load-outs (some good, some excellent, some not quite so good), several types of vehicles, though this is somewhere where vCoH arguably had a better and wider selection, and so on. Basic principles and ideas is "vague" indeed, because it is difficult to define the end-product of a studio and still come up with a list of keywords that no doubt were mulled over in the creation process.

Put 204 hours on COH 1 and then make that comparison of which is the better experience.

I must have put over 1000 hours of time into COH1 and I can say that CoH2 feels like COH. It is identical. No.. of course not. What would be the point? We all would just keep playing CoH ad nauseum. The fact is there are a lot of cool ideas in COH2 and with the exception of the implementation of the blizzard mechanic and UI problems most of them work well. It's new maps, new factions, new abilities... Can you imagine if someone had judged CoH in its Beta stage? How many unique and new techniques and strategies evolved WAY after release.... In fact many would argue that CoH didn't hit it's peak until the 7th patch, almost a year after its release. So relax pal.

CoH2, to me, plays like DoW2.5, with a WWII setting.

To me, it has far more in common with DoW2, than it does with vCoH.

Ugh, I have spoken.

Seriously mate - you missed my point COMPLETELY.

I have absolutely NO INTEREST in your DOW - I was using it as an example of somebody trying to argue something is better than something else with NOT HAVING ANY IDEA of how hood the other item was in comparison.

You get what I'm talking about?

Example - Porsche's are sh!t cars - Though I've never owned or driven a Porshce.
Example - France isn't as good to travel as Italy - Though I've never traveled Italy.

YOUR EXAMPLE

COH2 is a much better game than COH1 - BUT I'VE NEVER REALLY PLAYED COH1.

Let's get some point of reference here.

You're complaining about CoH2, not Relic. Porsche is a car company, not a model. France is a country, as is Italy, and neither can be constrained into an experience based on travel, you have to live there to have that authority.

Example - The Porsche model of this year is shit, because I drove it for 15 minutes and it doesn't feel as good as my older model.
or:
Example - Rome is not as good to travel as Paris, though I've not travelled to Paris. I base this on my experience of my passport being stolen at a train station in Rome.
Hey, now that I look at it, you just described your own authority with the examples you gave, not mine. I -have- played vCoH, you've played neither DoW2 or DoW1 yet you try (and fail) to draw some kind of point from them, and to describe to me why your point should be taken seriously.

I must have put over 1000 hours of time into COH1 and I can say that CoH2 feels like COH. It is identical. No.. of course not. What would be the point? We all would just keep playing CoH ad nauseum. The fact is there are a lot of cool ideas in COH2 and with the exception of the implementation of the blizzard mechanic and UI problems most of them work well. It's new maps, new factions, new abilities... Can you imagine if someone had judged CoH in its Beta stage? How many unique and new techniques and strategies evolved WAY after release.... In fact many would argue that CoH didn't hit it's peak until the 7th patch, almost a year after its release. So relax pal.

DGN - mate - chill there yourself.

My comment was that the poster has no reference point - he HASN'T played COH1 - yet he's making comparison to it.

That's my point.

As far as COH2 goes - I think they'll have to fix it severely over time with many more patches before it becomes anything remotely as fun as COH2 - I really dislike the disconnection of the Doctrines being core etc - but that's me - I cancelled my pre-order in the closed Beta as I saw no point paying a premium for something thats halfway finished and HOPEFULLY will improve in time as you say.

That said I'll just play the 100's of other bloody games I have in my Steam thing that I've been unable to play as I was too busy playing COH1 - then by the time the Xmas Steam sale is on I'm sure I can get COH2 for less than $20 and it'll come with ALL the patches making it an enjoyable experience for me and my wallet.

Put 204 hours on COH 1 and then make that comparison of which is the better experience.

Wait, how did you quantify the amount of hours you put into COH1???

Oh, right, you bought it on Steam....

Let's get some point of reference here.

You're complaining about CoH2, not Relic. Porsche is a car company, not a model. France is a country, as is Italy, and neither can be constrained into an experience based on travel, you have to live there to have that authority.

Example - The Porsche model of this year is shit, because I drove it for 15 minutes and it doesn't feel as good as my older model.
or:
Example - Rome is not as good to travel as Paris, though I've not travelled to Paris. I base this on my experience of my passport being stolen at a train station in Rome.
Hey, now that I look at it, you just described your own authority with the examples you gave, not mine. I -have- played vCoH, you've played neither DoW2 or DoW1 yet you try (and fail) to draw some kind of point from them, and to describe to me why your point should be taken seriously.

You are a troll - plain and simple.

Discussion over mate.

Wait, how did you quantify the amount of hours you put into COH1???

Oh, right, you bought it on Steam....

Afraid not mate - I've had COH1 since day 1 of release - you remember those days - where you actually bought a CD that has the game on it?

I was making reference to that Fortune bloke who's basically spamming the forum with bugger all of an idea how to play COH1 - he's played Vire a few times, got M10 spammed, and to him, that was COH1.

CoH2, to me, plays like DoW2.5, with a WWII setting.

To me, it has far more in common with DoW2, than it does with vCoH.

Ugh, I have spoken.

We should pow-wow sometime.
Ugh.

You are a troll - plain and simple.

Discussion over mate.

I couldn't agree more.

Afraid not mate - I've had COH1 since day 1 of release - you remember those days - where you actually bought a CD that has the game on it?

I was making reference to that Fortune bloke who's basically spamming the forum with bugger all of an idea how to play COH1 - he's played Vire a few times, got M10 spammed, and to him, that was COH1.

Oh I remember them fondly.

I also remember that COH on release was imbalanced and not polished either. It's an organic game so it'll change I hope.

DGN - mate - chill there yourself.

My comment was that the poster has no reference point - he HASN'T played COH1 - yet he's making comparison to it.

That's my point.

As far as COH2 goes - I think they'll have to fix it severely over time with many more patches before it becomes anything remotely as fun as COH2 - I really dislike the disconnection of the Doctrines being core etc - but that's me - I cancelled my pre-order in the closed Beta as I saw no point paying a premium for something thats halfway finished and HOPEFULLY will improve in time as you say.

That said I'll just play the 100's of other bloody games I have in my Steam thing that I've been unable to play as I was too busy playing COH1 - then by the time the Xmas Steam sale is on I'm sure I can get COH2 for less than $20 and it'll come with ALL the patches making it an enjoyable experience for me and my wallet.

So your way of telling Relic to fix CoH2 is to pay them less down the road? This coming from the guy who tearjerked about "The good old days of CDs"?

You are delusional.

Oh I remember them fondly.

I also remember that COH on release was imbalanced and not polished either. It's an organic game so it'll change I hope.

So do I mate - I really do.

If COH2 even turns out to be half the game COH1 was and I only get half the enjoyment from it - that's still a good 3 years there of fun to be had.

I do understand where pingping is coming from. Especially with the doctrines and such. Its hard not to compare a sequel to the success of its predecessor. And to me vcoh was amazing even when it was imbalanced and a little screwy. I just knew playing vcoh how much potential it had, even when I played open beta. I feel somewhat the same for coh2 but I feel the basic success of vcoh did not carry over. To use fortunes car examples.... when new models come out they arent complete overhauls of what made the original design great. They are improvements to the original car while still keeping the core concepts of what the original design... anyway ill still buy coh2.. just not right away.. the unlocks and commanders etc feels so cheesy. Almost like a free to play game lol. But thats just me throwng in my 2 cents.

I do understand where pingping is coming from. Especially with the doctrines and such. Its hard not to compare a sequel to the success of its predecessor. And to me vcoh was amazing even when it was imbalanced and a little screwy. I just knew playing vcoh how much potential it had, even when I played open beta. I feel somewhat the same for coh2 but I feel the basic success of vcoh did not carry over. To use fortunes car examples.... when new models come out they arent complete overhauls of what made the original design great. They are improvements to the original car while still keeping the core concepts of what the original design... anyway ill still buy coh2.. just not right away.. the unlocks and commanders etc feels so cheesy. Almost like a free to play game lol. But thats just me throwng in my 2 cents.

I'm glad someone got the cars reference.