OKW, the root of most balance issues?

I'd like to recommend that everyone read this first:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/27737/highfive-s-guide-on-how-to-suggest-changes

Well said

I do.
Game mode? Map? USF or SU?

Well of course if okw is on stalingrad they will lose.

But in general OKW has it easier

IMO in 3v3 and 4v4 the Wehrmacht are fairly balanced. The OKW are the problem.

Stuka's creeping barrage is far too accurate/effective at destroying buildings and guarantees wipes on setup teams (and destroys the weapon too, so it can't be recrewed). It's a required unit due to the absurd MP drain on the enemy all game. Obers are doing a little much damage. Non doctrinal KT is a moron-proof supertank that WILL come out at the 25 minute mark.

We had a good thing going before WFA, and then OKW shows up and it's like we've had amnesia and forgotten all the lessons taught from vanilla CoH2 or vCoH

OKW is the best faction in the game

An allied player versus an OKW player of equal skill will result in the OKW player winning 9 times out of 10

Id love to see someone disagree, You simply cant

in the tournament games ive played with Ciez, msot of the match ups led to a 2-1 victory with allies winning every time. we dont face that many good 2v2 teams, but we've gone up against Jesulin/Milkplease and Dusty/OMGPop in tournament games, and each time allies won 3-0. they were pretty close games, but nonetheless your statement is wrong.

in the tournament games ive played with Ciez, msot of the match ups led to a 2-1 victory with allies winning every time. we dont face that many good 2v2 teams, but we've gone up against Jesulin/Milkplease and Dusty/OMGPop in tournament games, and each time allies won 3-0. they were pretty close games, but nonetheless your statement is wrong.

Isolated examples of course.

Also the exception

mabey i should clarify.. In general OKw will win agaisnt an allied opponent of equably skill

If we fall for the strict definition, it should be a inconventional strat which is meant to take the opponent by surprise.
Since there is almost no element of surprise (you can scout enemy base in FoW n you see commander loadouts), cheese on CoH2 generally relates to any "spam" or rush of certain units which might be OP or overperforming.



You can make use of a death ball and then spread out when engaging the enemy or when danger arrives (spread out those marines!).



That shows how you don't need the approval or acknoledgement of the mayority of players to know something is gonna be OP or broken even if most people don't use it or think of using it.
I will say it again, USF was unplayable at the time, no one unlocked that commander yet and why bother with the Greyhound and it's gimmicky ability when you could rush a AA-HT faster and even compete against the Puma (if your opponent missmicro).



USF: rifle bar blob (before nerf) or even RE spam (before volley fire nerf) use to be a thing. Once you get your upgrades from your base, major + ambulance or even the Cpt foments some kind of blob/death ball. Thing is since Zooks are garbage and OKW blob is better, you are better going for a heavy tank play were you focus on wiping squads with either Scots or HE Shermans.

Regarding OH: it mostly force a lot of players to use Mechanized Assault for Stug-E into Tigers and a fast T2 to counter the M20, AA-HT or nowadays the Greyhound. T3 can be tricky since Jackson hardcounters it. Either you wait for the Tiger or you make AWESOME use of Mgs+Paks, which on some maps, can't be use at all.

So the more cheesy faction is the OKW? Is it what you say when you talk about blobbing is cheese? Come on, let keep apart that terminology, the most cheesy strat I have ever seen in 1vs1 is a 2 or 3 kubel start, cause Cheese also mean you bet on surprising your opponent by something going cpmpletely against the gameplay like ensuring you have a sufficient resource income.

I completely agree with you on the M8, it was OP since the beginning but the meta game wasn't ready to let his power shown to everyone. This is why I said today, USF common players have reach this maturity to use it efficiently today and it is a problem for the Ostheer.

Every faction can Xblob. Cons blob / Rifle blob and grenadier blob are still used. Don't you know you can spam and blob grenadier with their LMG if you have sufficient munition income/going on a Munition bases strat. It is really efficient as well.
However I cannot believe you that Ostheer need that badly to use a a Stug-E to counter light vehicles, not with grenadier with faust + pak that gives you a pretty sure kill of the unit. Like for any other faction except OKW. Sov need the Cons nade + Zis and USF Atnade + Atgun. OKW only need to blob volks shreck and this is exactly the issue people are talking about since a couple of weeks now.


@ Ratchet and Lemon

The problem is:
Allied factions are more difficult to play in 2vs2 but mastering them let you outclass Axis teamplay.
The problem is that it requires Allied players to materialize their faction in order to outclass their counterpart.
This is the problem because what you expose Lemon is the exception. But in the other part, every game to be play at any level need to oppose Allied to Axis. One side need more investment to be played than the other for the majority of the players.

Im not arguing against that allied factions are more difficult to play. however, i think you guys grossly overestimate how much more 'skill' is required to play allies. coh2 is a game of strategy. proper micro and utilizing your units will get you far, however strategizing effectively, having timings, and knowing what counters what and when is what you need to take that next step.

at the highest of skill levels i believe allies have the edge, in 2v2s atleast, for various reasons.

Im not arguing against that allied factions are more difficult to play. however, i think you guys grossly overestimate how much more 'skill' is required to play allies. coh2 is a game of strategy. proper micro and utilizing your units will get you far, however strategizing effectively, having timings, and knowing what counters what and when is what you need to take that next step.

at the highest of skill levels i believe allies have the edge, in 2v2s atleast, for various reasons.

Thank you

I agree with lemon on that. As many issues as OKW has, double soviets is probably the worst by far.

Isolated examples of course.

Also the exception

mabey i should clarify.. In general OKw will win agaisnt an allied opponent of equably skill

And how exactly do you know that?

Yes obers and shreck volks might be overperforming, but it's not like theres a bunch of things in the OKW roster that are severely underperforming or just straight up bad.

light infantry support gun, IR HT not really doing anything, PZIV battle group call in, raketenwerfer being the worst AT gun apart from m-42 at gun , the jagpanzer being horrenduosly overpriced and what not.

Im not arguing against that allied factions are more difficult to play. however, i think you guys grossly overestimate how much more 'skill' is required to play allies. coh2 is a game of strategy. proper micro and utilizing your units will get you far, however strategizing effectively, having timings, and knowing what counters what and when is what you need to take that next step.

at the highest of skill levels i believe allies have the edge, in 2v2s atleast, for various reasons.

I agree with almost everything here. Allied have an advantage in 2v2's

But u are correct in that u don't have to argue that allies are more difficult to play. We have stats and dev quotes that prove that they are.

@burts You are walking on needles when saying many OKw units are under performing.

Id argue many allied units are not even worth building

I agree with almost everything here. Allied have an advantage in 2v2's

But u are correct in that u don't have to argue that allies are more difficult to play. We have stats and dev quotes that prove that they are.

once i learned how to min/max with allies theyre not as difficult as you think. just need to have a different mindset than when playing as axis.

And how exactly do you know that?


Sometimes people really need to L2P. Yes obers and shreck volks might be overperforming, but it's not like theres a bunch of things in the OKW roster that are severely underperforming or just straight up bad.

light infantry support gun, IR HT not really doing anything, PZIV battle group call in, raketenwerfer being the worst AT gun apart from m-42 at gun , the jagpanzer being horrenduosly overpriced and what not.

Against my better judgement, I will just butt in here slightly....the light infantry support gun is a formidable weapon (IMO), if placed correctly, and your troops are going forward. I hazard to suggest that the only better equivalent is the Scott - but the Scott does not have the same fast retreat ability

Pan me (politely) if you wish

OKW is the best faction in the game

An allied player versus an OKW player of equal skill will result in the OKW player winning 9 times out of 10

Id love to see someone disagree, You simply cant

I disagree

raketenwerfer being the worst AT gun apart from m-42 at gun

Raketwerfer is the worst AT gun if you try to use it as a PaK-40

But as I use it as what it is and play to its strengths I really love it

I feel like the rakaten should get a 5th man

I'm not saying it's the root, but the faction itself doesn't make much sense to me.. Not to play against, and not to play with.

Nerf Obers-good joke.What is OKW going to do vs shocks and rifle/airborne inf hordes.Already ostheer inf can't do much.Ober is last axis elite inf worth the name-fallschirm are joke -overpriced just for surprise entry.

Nerf Obers-good joke.What is OKW going to do vs shocks and rifle/airborne inf hordes.Already ostheer inf can't do much.Ober is last axis elite inf worth the name-fallschirm are joke -overpriced just for surprise entry.

Luchs hard-counters Shocks and Paratroopers

I agree with lemon on that. As many issues as OKW has, double soviets is probably the worst by far.

100 % true.