Blobbing

U ned halp wit ur CoH2 meth homewrk?



Ur welcum!

Stephen

when is your CoH2 MLG video gonna be ready? /offtopic

The way I see blobbing is this, games give the players more than they can handle. Its hard for someone to manage individual units over say 8 squads. Yes blobbing is lame, yes blobbers can just "a" move, but look at other games at a competive level. SC2 comes down to the death ball. Economy and other factors sap the players focus. There are players who can pump out 250 actions per minute and yet resort to moving thier entire force at you. There are execptions of course, but the rule is still thier. Human players cant control 8,9,100's of different units. Its just easier to blob. Make mg's actually kill not suppress, they dont have to wipe but comeon, give much more bottle necks where flanking isnt an option but a must.

People always complain about 66% OKW income, but people forget that OKW teching is incredibly cheap, and in the first 20 minutes of the game, they actually have more fuel than any other faction.

Only in the late game that fuel penalty can be really felt.

But then OKW already has bulletproof volksgrenadiers and matrix bullet dodge obersoldaten on the field, so it hardly matters

The way I see blobbing is this, games give the players more than they can handle. Its hard for someone to manage individual units over say 8 squads. Yes blobbing is lame, yes blobbers can just "a" move, but look at other games at a competive level. SC2 comes down to the death ball. Economy and other factors sap the players focus. There are players who can pump out 250 actions per minute and yet resort to moving thier entire force at you. There are execptions of course, but the rule is still thier. Human players cant control 8,9,100's of different units. Its just easier to blob. Make mg's actually kill not suppress, they dont have to wipe but comeon, give much more bottle necks where flanking isnt an option but a must.

Yeah, cause what this game needs is more Minsk Pocket and Lazur Factory-like maps, so Germans will never have to move their ubermensch MGs and Paks.

The way I see blobbing is this, games give the players more than they can handle. Its hard for someone to manage individual units over say 8 squads. Yes blobbing is lame, yes blobbers can just "a" move, but look at other games at a competive level...

Cossacks 1, Battle for Middle-Earth 2. Try to blob in these games, try just A-move and you will be punished like a pudding. Cossacks 1 is for me the greatest RTS ever, while BFMII has best physics and it shows up how paper-rock-scissors mechanism should work.

This community is pretty funny. The vast majority agree that blobbing is an issue but when counters are buffed to be effective or new counters introduced the following threads start to appear.

Unit ABC123 was squad wiped by unit DFG456. Squad wiping is not fair!!1!

In my most recent memory I've seen threads that follow this very predictable format for the..

• IS2.
  
• Demolition charges.
  
• IL2 strafing run.
  
• The B4.
  
• The ISU152.
  
• The Brummbar.
  
• The Katusha.
  
• The walking Stuka.
  

News flash you can't defeat blobs unless you kill the units. You can't kill the units without squad wiping. It cannot be both ways.

This community is pretty funny. The vast majority agree that blobbing is an issue but when counters are buffed to be effective or new counters introduced the following threads start to appear.

Unit ABC123 was squad wiped by unit DFG456. Squad wiping is not fair!!1!

In my most recent memory I've seen threads that follow this very predictable format for the..

• IS2.
  
• Demolition charges.
  
• IL2 strafing run.
  
• The B4.
  
• The ISU152.
  
• The Brummbar.
  
• The Katusha.
  
• The walking Stuka.
  

News flash you can't defeat blobs unless you kill the units. You can't kill the units without squad wiping. It cannot be both ways.

Can't help it. They're too used to having it easy and good for themselves. They hate it when people blob against them or wipe out their units. They DO like it when they do it against their opponent. The double standard is insane. They only want buffs for themselves.

Can't help it. They're too used to having it easy and good for themselves. They hate it when people blob against them or wipe out their units. They DO like it when they do it against their opponent. The double standard is insane. They only want buffs for themselves.

Or the good old argument: "Oh nos the ISU squad wipes my squads that I a moved into the open!!!111 Nerff it! IRL the isu..." Followed by the Screwed history/facts.

Copy and paste a different unit according to faction.

Seriously, this thread annoys me now. Blobbing is a tactic. It can be dealt with, but there are elements of it that are broken. It only exsits though with 2 specific units:

• Volk blobs. Easy to deal with infantry/support weapons and maybe 1 medium tank on your side. Dodge some volk grenades. Bring in the tanks once they waste their first volley of panzershrecks on your infantry, then proceed to reverse or run them over depending on the situation. Good cover infantry/support will do the bulk of the work.
  
  
• Conscript blob. Literally 0 DPS on the move if your facing infantry/HMG in good cover placement. Actually requires flanking so that is irrelevant.
  
  
• Rifle blob. Tricky if they know how to use smoke grenades well but can still be dealt with by well placed HMG and short range DPS squads (flamers/sturm pios) or vehicles to cause pathing issues/roadkill.
  
  
• Paratrooper LMG and Obsoldaten are the broken ones that in these blobs that cause the most harm. These units excel even more when they have the rifle/volk meat shields in support. These are the units though that break your whole line though with the sheer damage they do moving forward. They really hurt infantry behind green cover, can decrew HMG head-on and do not let support weapons (ATG especially) even move back/retreat.
  

I think the fact I get shit scared of not the KT, but the Obersoldaten squad just behind sums up my fear when versing them with infantry/support weapons. Likewise, with paratrooper LMG squads I just always get an ostwind instead of a P4 because I know that way I can always and quickly reliably focus and force their retreat in a blob immediately.

I'd like to see Relic just change the strength of Para LMG and Obersoldaten LMG first. Then see how the blobs perform after that. If adjustments have to be made to Volks/Rifle after that then do so, but I seriously doubt it...



@Sneaking. Yeah MLG video had to take a halt because of my exam. Same reason why I havn't streamed the past few days much.

...

• Volk blobs. Easy to deal with infantry/support weapons and maybe 1 medium tank on your side. Dodge some volk grenades. Bring in the tanks once they waste their first volley of panzershrecks on your infantry, then proceed to reverse or run them over depending on the situation. Good cover infantry/support will do the bulk of the work....
  

That's they way you can deal with Volks in mid game. What about late game when they can come with King Tiger? I'm talking especially about USF. Jackson has hard time dealing with KT front at max range. Obvious way is to flank it, but there we have Volks. They can melt Jackson in a second so we should first take out Volks. M8 howitzer is great but very inaccurate and it take ages to make them retreat especially if they are moving. Paras LMG will be wiped by KT. My point is that OKW units are synergizing a way better than any other faction.

I really never see blobs as a viable tactic strategy. I end up facing against players that blob a lot, and all they do is bleed their own MP. Not only that a blob can be out capped. so you'd get more income then the other guy in the end. And on top of that by the time that they get a tank, you have more then enough to deal with the blob and the tank.

Oh and they are really easy to lure into traps.

Seriously, this thread annoys me now. Blobbing is a tactic. It can be dealt with, but there are elements of it that are broken. It only exsits though with 2 specific units:

• Volk blobs. Easy to deal with infantry/support weapons and maybe 1 medium tank on your side. Dodge some volk grenades. Bring in the tanks once they waste their first volley of panzershrecks on your infantry, then proceed to reverse or run them over depending on the situation. Good cover infantry/support will do the bulk of the work.
  
  
• Conscript blob. Literally 0 DPS on the move if your facing infantry/HMG in good cover placement. Actually requires flanking so that is irrelevant.
  
  
• Rifle blob. Tricky if they know how to use smoke grenades well but can still be dealt with by well placed HMG and short range DPS squads (flamers/sturm pios) or vehicles to cause pathing issues/roadkill.
  
  
• Paratrooper LMG and Obsoldaten are the broken ones that in these blobs that cause the most harm. These units excel even more when they have the rifle/volk meat shields in support. These are the units though that break your whole line though with the sheer damage they do moving forward. They really hurt infantry behind green cover, can decrew HMG head-on and do not let support weapons (ATG especially) even move back/retreat.
  

I think the fact I get shit scared of not the KT, but the Obersoldaten squad just behind sums up my fear when versing them with infantry/support weapons. Likewise, with paratrooper LMG squads I just always get an ostwind instead of a P4 because I know that way I can always and quickly reliably focus and force their retreat in a blob immediately.

I'd like to see Relic just change the strength of Para LMG and Obersoldaten LMG first. Then see how the blobs perform after that. If adjustments have to be made to Volks/Rifle after that then do so, but I seriously doubt it...



@Sneaking. Yeah MLG video had to take a halt because of my exam. Same reason why I havn't streamed the past few days much.

I approve of this, however I still feel that Allies, for the most part, have the better and harder-to-counter anti-blobbing measures.

As for the whole double Standards discussion, I'd say the point is valid to a degree, but a lot of the mentioned weapons such as the ISU, Stuka or Demo Charge are perfectly capable of wiping single squads too, no blobbing required.

I agree with Stephen, volks blobs aren't the bad its the elite infantry blobs like Obers the brake the game. There's nothing more frustrating then 3 obers a moving and wrecking everything and there's nothing you can do because they are covered by volks.

That's they way you can deal with Volks in mid game. What about late game when they can come with King Tiger? I'm talking especially about USF. Jackson has hard time dealing with KT front at max range. Obvious way is to flank it, but there we have Volks. They can melt Jackson in a second so we should first take out Volks. M8 howitzer is great but very inaccurate and it take ages to make them retreat especially if they are moving. Paras LMG will be wiped by KT. My point is that OKW units are synergizing a way better than any other faction.

Is this team-game or 1v1? If it is team game I have no idea. I assume 1v1.

Open map I think it is easy to kite the KT with the Jacksons. Generally have a good sense of where the KT (literally by listening in the FoW). If they push KT with volks, Jackson range buffer is sufficient to hurt them and I'll use the speed advantage to get in a better/safer/exposed Axis armour position if need be. The frontal armour of the KT can be scary but I find if Jackson veterancy is preserved they tend to really beat the shit out of a KT eventually. Jackson = AT safe from Obersoldaten, hence why I always get opt for Jackson on open map. Pinging out a random rifle smoke nades can be useful since the KT is slow you can easily predict its map location once you have seen it and hit with attack-ground.

Urban maps. I got no idea since it is hard to position the Jackson appropriately with maximum range so that it is safe from a KT turret and/or volk ambush. Hence, why I typically opt for M20 back-tech for the mines and use ATG to kill the destroyed engine KT. That fails though because that one Obersoldaten squad with the volk blob that literally annilhates all ATG crews once they are in range. I can rarely focus the Obersoldaten squad down in time with Sherman/Rifle Bar fire. Unless I get in a lucky hit I lose my ATG or have to pre-emptively pull back my ATG before Obersoldaten get in range.

Is this team-game or 1v1? If it is team game I have no idea. I assume 1v1.

Im talking about 2v2 where I find 2x OKW as very, very hard to beat. One goes for Volks+Puma/Flak/Stuka and second goes for Obers+Panther/JT/KT. Such combination is deadly.

This community is pretty funny. The vast majority agree that blobbing is an issue but when counters are buffed to be effective or new counters introduced the following threads start to appear.

Unit ABC123 was squad wiped by unit DFG456. Squad wiping is not fair!!1!

In my most recent memory I've seen threads that follow this very predictable format for the..

• IS2.
  
• Demolition charges.
  
• IL2 strafing run.
  
• The B4.
  
• The ISU152.
  
• The Brummbar.
  
• The Katusha.
  
• The walking Stuka.
  

News flash you can't defeat blobs unless you kill the units. You can't kill the units without squad wiping. It cannot be both ways.

Well, here's my idea to deal with reducing RNG-based squadwiping WITHOUT rendering antiblob units ineffective.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/26156/new-infantry-grouping/post/249960

From a USF player perceptive, the main issue is about LMG + shreck blobs. I meant if we take a blob as a tactical possibility, this particular way of blobbing is really powerful.

1st point

1- You can just A-move, you'll always be at your best distance.
2- It is a lot safer than SMG blobs since you do not need to close the distance with your target.
3- LMG (and I include 1919) are the most powerful light weapons in game, deadly accurate and focus 1 model per 1.
4- Shreck are the most powerful infantry anti tank weapon.

So, why should people not blobbing? Both weapons have the same range more or less, no real need in microing anything.

2nd point

The easier hard anti-infantry counter-blob are in Axis hand with the Lunch and the Ostwind. Heavy armor + deadly power vs everything that is on feet. Of course, do not expect to stop a blob alone with that but by the simple fact it kills fast any squad make it really resilient.

3nd point

Addition of 1st and 2nd point make no match. Of course, it is not like any Axis player will succeed in having A-move blob + lunch/ostwind behind but it is clearly really a good step to the victory.


I feel Relic made a wrong decision in allowing players to have LMG so early in the game, and this for every faction. LMG should remain something linked to T4 and behind a Munition sink wall. Because it simply reward defensive and non micro play style, it does not reward people taking risk in their strategy.
Looking back into Vcoh, that was well balanced between vanilla faction, LMG weren't that spamed because really expensive and many other upgrade required munition before it.

I feel like any faction should have more SMG and less LMG, it would make the game more dynamic, force people to attack and use micro, make blob less A-move like.

I fail to see any downside to a blobbing debuff.

If there are 3 or more squads within a certain distance of each-other, then they get hit with a received accuracy penalty.

I fail to see any downside to a blobbing debuff.

If there are 3 or more squads within a certain distance of each-other, then they get hit with a received accuracy penalty.

You'll heavily nerf strategies based around a number of cheap individually combat ineffective squads (like RE or ostruppen). If you apply it by the model you'll heavily nerf high model based factions (AKA allies). Then you would have to decide how close the squads should be to one another for the penalty to take effect. It's also yet another layer of complexity that you will never figure out unless told.

Seriously, this thread annoys me now. Blobbing is a tactic.

As a senior strategist. Who do you think is the most experienced blobber in the game?