I thought mark target might negate the bonus a bit, but It doesn't seem to help that much in a 1v1 situation. (does anyone have numbers of mark target vs hit the dirt?) Using grenades seems like a waste of munitions. It will hurt them, but if they are full health its not going to kill anybody and they will just retreat and heal up. The only decent way to counter hit the dirt I've found is using a mortar, but even then its lucky if you hit them or not, and you can't have a mortar everywhere.
Is there something I'm missing or is there a balance issue here? Should it cost munitions? Should flamers do extra damage to them?
Hit the dirt!
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22 Apr 2013, 05:57 AM
#1
Posts: 34
22 Apr 2013, 06:02 AM
#2
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
I think conscripts would be useless without it right now since they do almost no damage and get suppressed by mg instantly (even if in green cover).
22 Apr 2013, 06:09 AM
#3
Posts: 34
I'm not suggesting to take it away from them. You can't use it while you are suppressed anyway. I think it would be better as an anti-suppression ability rather than some sort of super shield.
Edit: And the hyperbole of "almost no damage" isn't going to help a discussion when its plain wrong.
Edit: And the hyperbole of "almost no damage" isn't going to help a discussion when its plain wrong.
22 Apr 2013, 06:39 AM
#4
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
It's kinda too good right now. You can counter it with PGren grenades, but because it's pretty much impossible to dodge grenades right now anyways, there's almost no downside to using it in an engagement.
22 Apr 2013, 06:50 AM
#5
Posts: 64
Btw. is anybody ever using any other commander for soviets?
Rifles and Hit the Dirt on 1 plus the conscripts weapon upgrade on 2. So you got better anti-infantry plus better anti-tank infantry quite early in the game.
@Inverse: I already had insane players regularly running away with conscripts once they saw the beginning of the rifle grenade animation. I wonder how the hell they keep aware of this while doing all the other stuff but it is possible. But rare of course so you are probably right.
Rifles and Hit the Dirt on 1 plus the conscripts weapon upgrade on 2. So you got better anti-infantry plus better anti-tank infantry quite early in the game.
@Inverse: I already had insane players regularly running away with conscripts once they saw the beginning of the rifle grenade animation. I wonder how the hell they keep aware of this while doing all the other stuff but it is possible. But rare of course so you are probably right.
22 Apr 2013, 06:56 AM
#6
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
Btw. is anybody ever using any other commander for soviets?
Rifles and Hit the Dirt on 1 plus the conscripts weapon upgrade on 2. So you got better anti-infantry plus better anti-tank infantry quite early in the game.
@Inverse: I already had insane players regularly running away with conscripts once they saw the beginning of the rifle grenade animation. I wonder how the hell they keep aware of this while doing all the other stuff but it is possible. But rare of course so you are probably right.
The other doctrines are viable in team games, but 1v1 I go for the conscript buffs almost every time and occasionally for the 120mm + T34/85.
22 Apr 2013, 07:50 AM
#7
Posts: 522
Pgren bundle grenades rape hit the dirt conscripts hard. You can hit retreat as soon as you see the grenade thrown and still lose 3-4 guys.
22 Apr 2013, 07:58 AM
#8
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
hit the dirt removes suppression from your units and gives defensive bonus but i think increases damage from grenades, even rifle nades can kill 3-4 of cons squad and bundle can kill whole squad
22 Apr 2013, 08:17 AM
#9
1 
Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2
Try using grenadiers grenade launcher
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22 Apr 2013, 08:38 AM
#10
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
Grenadier rifle grenades do next to nothing to Conscripts, especially when they use Hit the Dirt. You can eat one or two and still win the engagement easily.
22 Apr 2013, 08:47 AM
#11
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
rifle nades deals more damage to "hit the dirt" cons than they are standing normal
22 Apr 2013, 08:49 AM
#12
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
Possible, but I doubt it, seeing as Hit the Dirt gives a blanket reduction to received accuracy. Which would mean grenades would actually do less.
22 Apr 2013, 08:52 AM
#13
Posts: 34
Pgren bundle grenades rape hit the dirt conscripts hard. You can hit retreat as soon as you see the grenade thrown and still lose 3-4 guys.
Is this because you take more damage on retreat than while HTD is active? In my experience the conscripts go from full to half health with bundled grenades. This makes forcing a retreat easier, but cost a lot of munitions to keep throwing them at every conscript squad.
22 Apr 2013, 09:01 AM
#14
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
PGren bundled grenades are very powerful right now. You can usually count on them killing 3-4 men in a Conscript squad if the squad isn't full health.
Retreat bonuses in general seem reduced right now compared to vCoH. Flamers especially do a lot more damage to retreating units.
Retreat bonuses in general seem reduced right now compared to vCoH. Flamers especially do a lot more damage to retreating units.
22 Apr 2013, 09:44 AM
#15
1 Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2
Kolaris said that this happens due to the projectile speed of flamethrowers
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22 Apr 2013, 09:46 AM
#16
Posts: 934
Does anyone else find the fire bugs the hell out of retreating units aswell? Its like they really get slowed down by fire and don't just retreat striaght back home, sort of dance around to much and gets them killed.
22 Apr 2013, 10:19 AM
#17
Posts: 522
Is this because you take more damage on retreat than while HTD is active? In my experience the conscripts go from full to half health with bundled grenades. This makes forcing a retreat easier, but cost a lot of munitions to keep throwing them at every conscript squad.
Even with hit the dirt and you don't retreat you'll still lose 3-4 guys especially when you're bunched up. When you press retreat, conscripts get up and stand still a moment before retreating. PG grenades go off so fast so it'll catch your squad as they're standing still. It costs alot of munis to throw bundles but combined with the STGs of Pgrens you can do alot of manpower damage that it is worth it.
22 Apr 2013, 11:22 AM
#18
Posts: 21
Everybody here saying bundle grenades are the solution to the problem are mistaken. Those grenades are very expensive, at 45 mun a pop and even if you kill 3-4, that's only 60-80 manpower damage. Keep doing that and you'll run dry on munitions real fast and find yourself in a situation where you can't even afford a panzerfaust. Also this solution is strictly limited to pgens, you're very likely to have at least 2-3 grenadier squads which find themselves powerless vs HTD even with LMG42s.
Considering how vital munitions are for the German player the bundled grenade is way too expensive to be an effective counter.
Considering how vital munitions are for the German player the bundled grenade is way too expensive to be an effective counter.
22 Apr 2013, 12:27 PM
#19
Posts: 52
I tried the 120mm mortar with T34/85 commander and it was pretty good but my conscripts were much weaker. Overall the mortar commander isn't better although the 120mm mortars are insane and can hit pretty much any point on the map near the middle. If you get a couple of them it can be hard for the Ostheer to break through unless they bum rush your mortars...
Sojourner aka Murfenator
http://www.twitch.tv/murfenator
http://www.twitch.tv/murfenator
22 Apr 2013, 14:28 PM
#20
Posts: 6
As a note, the squad being suppressed disables the ability, so having an HMG handy will help
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