Login

russian armor

Mark Target

PAGES (7)down
13 Nov 2014, 17:38 PM
#21
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2014, 17:27 PMRomeo
I don't necessarily think it should be nerfed, just that it should be changed such that no synergies exist that allow the most expensive units in the game to be killed in one shot.

Which makes it even more important to change. When overpowered abilities are gated behind a few commanders, those commanders are the only ones you ever see and the meta becomes very stale. Soviets need other ways to take out these units. Preferably ones that involve more than clicking one button.

If soviets lack other options then that's a separate problem that should be addressed as well.


Romeo, that is a hypothetical situation. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but that requires so many situations and variables that i doubt makes it a common occurrence.

I know having those abilities makes the commander more appealing...but all the other commanders are very lackluster... Now you are proposing nerfs to B4, Mark Target.. ISU is coming soon...there will be no more Soviet late game.

And i disagree with your statement on discussing these balance changes as "vacuum" discussions. These units and abilities have a strong relationship to their respective faction design. Additionally, these abilities and units also have a cross-factional relationship to other units. Discussing Mark Target alone would ignore how the ability plays into the Soviet meta. It would be easier to discuss one unit and only one unit if all factions were symmetrically balanced.
13 Nov 2014, 17:39 PM
#22
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


That's impossible, one ISU does 240 damage, so two ISUs does 480 damage + market targets = 960 damage and since two ISUs fired twice that's 1920........

HOLY SHIT!!!


I didnt clarify.

Each ISU shot once
13 Nov 2014, 17:40 PM
#23
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



Not every Wehr doctrine gets smoke, and as far as I know OKW doesn't get it on there tanks unless they drive a puma up and smoke it.
The same can be said about marktarget, whats your point?
13 Nov 2014, 17:41 PM
#24
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2014, 17:37 PMRomeo
No name calling or personal attacks please.

There is no way to justify a nerf to the Jagdtiger if these abilities will remain the same. The Jagdtiger is undeniably overpowered. If mark target is questionable now, what will it be if the Jagd is nerfed? It should be tweaked such that it is viable but not required.


Again, on its own in 1v1 for example it isn't really that bad. In 2v2+ it's problematic. That's why I'd like to see it changed in a way that maintains its 1v1 potency but balances it out in team games.
Your looking at it wrong in 2v2 plus the allies don't have much to deal with the germans heavies, so what else are they suppose to do?
13 Nov 2014, 17:42 PM
#25
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

I think, this combo from two players (for 100+240 munition), can be countered with AA defense.

13 Nov 2014, 17:43 PM
#26
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
I think the ability is OP

But im also tempted to say the ability is no more "OP" than the units its used to kill...
13 Nov 2014, 17:44 PM
#27
avatar of ☭ Калашникова ☭

Posts: 322

The same can be said about marktarget, whats your point?

What im saying is Germans can't just 'lulblitzbainoobs' out of everything with smoke, JT cant even blitz and KT's blitz has a very short duration.
13 Nov 2014, 17:46 PM
#28
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

yea its too strong.

double isu's double shotted my KT once


Seems fair since I can kill KT without mark target with 3 SU85
13 Nov 2014, 17:46 PM
#29
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2014, 17:37 PMRomeo


Again, on its own in 1v1 for example it isn't really that bad. In 2v2+ it's problematic. That's why I'd like to see it changed in a way that maintains its 1v1 potency but balances it out in team games.


There are Axis heavies everywhere in 3v3 and higher. Mark Target is needed.
13 Nov 2014, 17:47 PM
#30
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned

What im saying is Germans can't just 'lulblitzbainoobs' out of everything with smoke,


this is hilarious.

that's EXACTLY wat smoke and blitz enables axis player to do
13 Nov 2014, 17:49 PM
#31
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

But, those aren't doctrinal, and its not hard getting german armor to vet 1. the kt and jt doesn't even need blitz they deny allied armor and infantry(kt) the moment they arrive and not only that they have an array of rockkatten and volks/ober/pfusiler blobs around them and eveything that shoots at them bounces, but you know mark target thats the op thing here
13 Nov 2014, 17:49 PM
#32
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

So...

Its okay for German stuff to do what it wants because it costs so much...

But proper Allied investments of the same magnitude shouldn't be rewarding...

Can we remove Allies please? Germans on Germans? I bet the game would be super balanced then because of logic.
13 Nov 2014, 17:52 PM
#33
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2014, 17:38 PMNinjaWJ
Romeo, that is a hypothetical situation. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but that requires so many situations and variables that i doubt makes it a common occurrence.
How frequently the synergies occur is not really relevant. They are possible, they are overpowered, and they need to be changed. Just because something isn't seen that often doesn't mean it should be left alone forever (see SU-76).

I know having those abilities makes the commander more appealing...but all the other commanders are very lackluster... Now you are proposing nerfs to B4, Mark Target.. ISU is coming soon...there will be no more Soviet late game.
That's because soviet late game is too strong. Double soviets was nearly unbeatable in the SCC. I also support buffs to almost all soviet core units. Do you really enjoy relying 90% on commander features to have any chance of winning a game?

And i disagree with your statement on discussing these balance changes as "vacuum" discussions. These units and abilities have a strong relationship to their respective faction design. Additionally, these abilities and units also have a cross-factional relationship to other units. Discussing Mark Target alone would ignore how the ability plays into the Soviet meta. It would be easier to discuss one unit and only one unit if all factions were symmetrically balanced.

As has been stated a million times before, a particular unit being underpowered or overpowered does not justify any other unit being underpowered or overpowered. That's not balance.
13 Nov 2014, 17:52 PM
#34
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

So...

Its okay for German stuff to do what it wants because it costs so much...

But proper Allied investments of the same magnitude shouldn't be rewarding...

Can we remove Allies please? Germans on Germans? I bet the game would be super balanced then because of logic.

Thats a great idea, why even bother having allies any way? Its like relic is purposely making this game to cater to axis fanboys because they know everyone loves za germans. I mean this game has inferred stg44's for fucks sake.
13 Nov 2014, 17:53 PM
#35
avatar of gokkel

Posts: 542

Yes, I feel it is too powerful. Unlike other commander abilities, it requires absolutely no planning, aiming etc. but can often bring huge return.

It might help if the ability wouldn't last so extremely long. It is also silly that the effect stays when the plane is shot down.
13 Nov 2014, 17:55 PM
#36
avatar of Marcus2389
Developer Relic Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 4559 | Subs: 2

I agree with Romeo.
13 Nov 2014, 17:56 PM
#37
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I wouldn't mind nerf/change, but but FIRST soviet stock units need to be able to deal with axis heavies.

Without that you can't really nerf anything that helps allies deal with heavies.
13 Nov 2014, 17:56 PM
#38
avatar of ☭ Калашникова ☭

Posts: 322

The only problem is 0 counterplay nothing you can do can prevent it or stop it.
13 Nov 2014, 18:00 PM
#39
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

The only problem is 0 counterplay nothing you can do can prevent it or stop it.


Mark target immediately stops your tanks, making them immobile and perfect targets.

(Alternatively, drive back to the base and sacrifice a tank for a small duration in trade for wasted munitions)
13 Nov 2014, 18:01 PM
#40
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

OH please. The only time marktarget is effective is if you make a mistake and over extend your advance with no support, thus allowing your armor to get flanked. if you just try to pick away at heavy tanks frontal armor it won't end well in your favor even with mark target
PAGES (7)down
3 users are browsing this thread: 3 guests

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

505 users are online: 505 guests
0 post in the last 24h
3 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48733
Welcome our newest member, service
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM