USF 1v1 - Questions & Views after 50 automatches

Hi All,

Im an old vCOH player, who stopped playing in 2007. Just picked up COH2 Western Armies couple of weeks ago and have been playing 1v1 Online.

Now, being familiar with RTS' and vCOH i didnt want to just barge on the forums and spam whines. So i decided i will play 50 games and then post after experiencing enough time. My stats are 25 win, 25 loss. I havent kept manual track v/s Wehr and OKW but my guess is i must have 70%+ loss against OKW.

Rather than list the common gripes that are common across these forums, reddit etc. Im posting some Questions, if you can answer them for me, it will help me improve my game and have fun, as currently its getting quite frustrating:

- OVERALL: My experience isnt very different from the meta-summarized at multiple places i.e. either as USF you dominate the first 10 mins to the extent that the Axis player concedes by the 12-13th min. This is more common vs Wehr and less so v/s OKW.

- WEHR: I use either Airbone or Rifle Commanders mostly. Cookie cutter 3-4 Riflemen start. If i see multiple MGs, i tech into Grenades else i get Lt first. Rush the M20 out and that allows a good lock down of the map, mostly. Alternatively, i skip Lt and go straight for Major while Rifles with BAR/Grenades/Zookas hold down the map (ofcourse depending on WEHR making medium vehicles, ill tech Zookas and get a Captain out). Then either Stuarts or Shermans help close out the game. I have some Qs regarding WEHR:

Q1: How do i counter an early Sniper? Must i spend fuel and rush the M20?

Q2: When the game is competitive and with USF's so called 'early power' even if i have 60%+ of the map, as long as WEHR has at least 1 fuel, he WILL GET Ostwind or Panzer4 by 13-14 mins. Im really confused about countering Ostwind's - they obviously anhillate Riflemen, fine, theyre supposed to. But they destroy M20 or Halftrack as quickly, in a single reload. The USF AT Guns have such horrible accuracy, they absolutely cant kill the Ostwind before it easily swings out of the fire cone. A single Ostwind is such a heavy burden to deal with, what am i supposed to kill it with? 125 fuel M36s seem the obvious answer, but seriously, there has to be a cheaper alternative. Please?

Q3: Mortars - Some WEHR players will make 2-3 mortars and then even when im strangling them across the map inside the first 10 mins, they will pound my forces and push me out till they at least have 1 fuel and Victory Point. Put down a MG Bunker and then just wait the game out, adding PAKs till he has enough heavy tanks to walk all over my army. vCOH i never remember Mortars being this accurate and powerful. So Question is, how do i counter Mortars as USF? I HATE the Infantry commander and the Mortar Half Track costs SO MUCH fuel, it completely destroys your tech to early Shermans/Stuarts.

- OKW: If im to believe what i read, apparently OKW, like Wehr is supposedly weak early game. Balls. Strumpioneers and Volks are superb together. Strums rip up Riflemen 1 on 1 at close range, so i find myself retreating my own Rear Ech and Riflemen squads from Strums unless there is a building nearby. Volks gain vet really fast and then with their AT upgrade they inhale USF vehicles in 1-2 hits. (except Sherman)

Q1: To hold my own against Strum+Volks ive tried going mostly Airborne, so without spending fuel i can support my BAR-Riflemen with MGs via drops. My problem is OKW Med Vehicles. Puma, how to counter it? vCOH Airborne came much earlier and had the RR upgrade making them viable against the fast moving Puma/Stug spam, especially since you could drop the AT guns behind lines and reinforce Airborne troops in the field. Question here is, how do you counter a 6-7 minute Puma. How about 3 Pumas in 10-12 mins?

Q2: Volks+Strums+MGs, upgrade AT on Volks and they absolutely destroy all USF medium vehicles. Tech to T4 and here come the Ubersoldiers. Then the single Panther to kick you sorry Shermans all over. Against WEHR i understand what im trying to do - control early with Riflemen, upgrade them to hold map, while rushing tech to Shermans. Against OKW, early game is a HARD fought struggle. I wont say its imba, but its a good balance, which then descends into madness at 15 mins+ because OKW units just plain blow USF late game units off the map.

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Please help. Ive known RELIC from most of their games to be very slow to patch balance and help improve meta. But id like to keep enjoying the game. One option to jump on the OKW bandwagon but i really want to make USF work.

Thanks in advance.

I rarley have trouble with oswinds

Their range is shit.

Deny axis their fuel

If they call ans oswind, they are desperate, because they dont have fuel to tech.

If u have any window of opputinity. Plant as many m20 mines as u can. They will immobilize ALL VEHICLES.

Use aggressive teching. in 1v1's go t1. make m20. then immediately go t4.

I recommend using airborn just in case u need an ATG

You should have a sherman or jackson around the same time they get oswind.

Dont tech nades. unless they are heavy in spamming mg's, or the map wont allow flanking. It cost 25 FUEL. This will hurt ur teching.

Edit: 90% of the time if u kill the oswind. its GG

Edit 2: Dont forget that u can build a fuel and munitions cache. something ot present in vcoh

Counter the sniper by spreading out and capping the map until you have an M20. It can easily kill it in 2 bursts.

If your opponent rushes an ostwind he has probably made a huge mistake. A sherman or jackson will both kill it without a second thought. If you absolutely don't want to tech to tanks for some reason, 4-6 bazookas should be enough to get the job done.

Mortars can be extremely annoying but if your opponent purchases more than one he is at a huge capping power and manpower disadvantage. As soon as it hits the field, do everything in your power to rush it since he won't have as many squads as you and will struggle to hold you back. This can be map dependent though.

Against OKW I recommend getting two extra rear echelons and using them to pressure the kubel and territory. Volley fire when appropriate to win map harassment engagements.

You may have no choice but to get an M20 to deal with the kubel and harass enemy infantry. Use the M20 to scout his tech. If he's gone mechanized regiment, plant a mine and try to bait the puma over it. If he's not falling for that, try to get it with a rifle grenade when it's out of position and finish it off with the M20 crew bazooka. Both of these things require your opponent to make a mistake so they're not ideal.

If you can hold a decent portion of the map until your jackson or sherman arrives you'll have a proper solution. If he's spamming pumas you can definitely win as long as you out-micro him and buy at least a couple bazookas.

As for combatting OKW elite infantry, you can generally hold your own with BAR upgraded riflemen and grenades. If you go infantry for LMGs or get LMGs on paratroopers you'll be fine as long as you use good positioning and micro, land good grenades and dodge his. If his blob is getting out of hand and you can't keep up, get a .50 cal and put it in a building, or even better an M8A1 HMC. It is sadly very inconsistent but if you're lucky you could wipe a few crucial squads.

In the current meta I think airborne, rifle, infantry, armor, and recon are all viable for 1v1 at your current skill level which is awesome. I would recommend against going mechanized, since the whole commander is countered by the the puma.

Well other guys mentioned some good tips. I'm not a pro like them but I'll give you my thoughts on this.
First of all, post some of your replays. Strategists will help you out and will point out your mistakes.

Try to rush for sniper with your M20 and riflemen, if you kill it fast, it's pretty much GG for axis because sniper is very expensive. It's also very micro intensive so you can focus on capturing other sides of the map.

USF ATG is not that bad, but if-as you said- you have 60% of the map, then when they roll out their Ost or P4 you should be close to getting your Sherman or Jackson (if have 1 fuel point and 1 fuel cache). I think you tech up late. Do not forget Bazookas. Although they are not ideal, specially at long range, they keep puma and Ostwind away so they can rush you. 1 ATG and 2 bazookas is enough for mid game medium armor.
For indirect fire power, USF is the best. Pack howitzer and M8 motor carriage are devastating. A lot of full squad wipes with one shot.
Allied armor are a bit micro intensive. Use your superior speed, and do not rush their armor with Shermans and Jacksons. Spot with your Rifle men (and even REs cause they are expendable) and use the your jacksons' superior range.
This is my general build (might not be ideal, as I said I'm not a pro but this might give you some idea).
A few rifles, grenade upgrade, ambulance. From here, If I see a lot if infantry spam, I go LT, and maybe bring an AA halftrack. If I go for Lt. I go Airborne and airdrop an ATG. Paratroopers with LMG are very powerful and they also fire their LMGs on the move (like Ubersoldaten). I then save for major, then if I see the enemy is spamming medium armor (meaning they are not bringing in a tiger or a KT) I bring one jackson and a sherman or two. If I see they are going for infantry and waiting for heavies, I bring 2 jacksons and one M8.
One more thing, do not forget RE volley fire ability. Early game when you see Stpios rushing with some volks, pin them down with your RE squad and focus your fire on them.

Eh, i appreciate the tips, but as much as i enjoy the frantic pace of this game, the 'micro-tax' on USF is absurd.

Majority Axis players just dig in and camp. 1-2 Mortars, sniping from near their base at the key VPs/Fuel/Ammo points is so ridiculous.

Put down ATGs+HMG combos and you JUST cannot charge a camped Axis player.

Waiting out doesnt help, due to the absurd balance difference between late game Axis units and Allies.

Just finished a game where 2 Shermans + 1 E8 Tank lost to a Axis with one P4 + 2 PAK guns on Semios, cause i refused to charge his camped position at the bottleneck entrance of axis base. His Mortars pounded out all buildings. Its ABSOLUTELY RETARDED how the very first few shots of a mortar wipe out squads - losing triple vet infantry (or down to 1 man) is plain ABSURD.

Panzer 4s and OST ATGs punch through Shermans like armor doesnt exist. Panzerschreks means i dont even bother with USF Med vehicles anymore, barring maybe a single early HT/M20.

Fuk, this, shit. USF has nothing to hard counter infantry, nothing to rush down axis camps, and absolutely nothing in any reasonable numbers to counter the eventual Panther/Tiger.

Garbage introduced into Axis since vCOH that i can point out:

- Panzerschreked Volks. Lol at 1-2 shotting Shermans AND Infantry with the basic OKW Infantry, once they get VET, which is quite simply just a matter of time.

- Sniping Mortars. LAUGHABLE how accurate theyve made Mortar. Once single well placed squad makes 2p maps IMPOSSIBLE to challenge. Plain Absurd.

- Complete and utter uselessness of USF Medium vehicles. They die quicker than RearEch squads. From M-20 to Stuar, two shots from a PAK, 2-3 shots from a Volks with Panzerschrek

Very very disappointed. Glad i only put 24$ into this game. I remember all the reasons i stopped playing vCOH. This is worse.

TLDR: Axis camps with HMG/Mortar/ATs and T1 Infantry spam till the P4s and Tiger/Panther arrives. In the meantime, just absorbing USFs assaults leads his infantry to 3-5 star VET and then end-game is LAUGHABLE. Its so pointless and repetitive. Im controlling 65-70% of the map and yet the Axis wins, since all he needs to do is camp it out. Lock out one part of map with his movable trucks if its OKW or a HMG+PAK+Mortar combo, and then use his infantry blob to dominate the other half. Plain frakin bullshit. Im so frustrated - losing to clearly inferior newbards.

I dont want to be mean.

But, alot of ur issues are l2p problems

I'm not a 1v1 player so perhaps it's a different perspective, but my understanding is that Allies generally have indirect fire superiority. Axis are extremely hard to tackle head-on when entrenched on one position, but all the good players will keep pounding that position from afar. It's incredibly draining when well executed. It won't do much if Axis becomes more aggressive but then that's problem solved since they're spreading out.

from what you say, I guess you are simply overextending and this is a kind of "L2P" or "experience" issue in this match up in small maps.

Concealing the Ostheer in his base and sitting around isn't a good option (in Langres for example), because you cannot rush his base before T4 and usually he can cover his units with his base buildings. So he can make you bleed more than you do.

So what to do? to win by resource power and attrition. Cap the map and build 1 or 2 caches fuel to faster your T4.
Let him extend a bit and flank him when he is re-positioning his units. Do not let him take the fuel, harass him every time he tries to.
Mine the roads with your M20 around his base and at every choc point.
Select wisely your commander. Is Airborn the best doctrine for what you want to do?
- Infantry company gives you M1919 and Priest, which will be really useful vs a campy player.
- Armor company gives you early AE and the bulldozer, same there, good to push hard but care of Paks.
- Airborn company gives you a strong infantry and let you skip T3 and gives you a good counter vs big tanks. The problem there is that of course, to counter them, your opponent will build an Ostwind since it's the hard counter to Elite infantry. Don't be surprise if you see one, and your ATgun need support to effectively counter it or a P4, a pair of zook is more than enough for that.

Now, if you win the early game by going T2 + Airborn, and want to pressurize him in his base, T3 is probably better than T4 since you can hit him hard with your howitzers. Just mine everywehere and be reactive with your atguns because you know he is going to counter with an Ost or a P4.
Same if you don't have the money to build a sherman, build your major as soon as you have the fuel, you'll need his reco run to calibrate your barrages.

I agree, these are "experience problems" (AKA L2P). Luckily we have the glorious observer mode, watch a couple of high rank games and you'll see how to perform and counter different strategies.

Eh, i appreciate the tips, but as much as i enjoy the frantic pace of this game, the 'micro-tax' on USF is absurd.

Majority Axis players just dig in and camp. 1-2 Mortars, sniping from near their base at the key VPs/Fuel/Ammo points is so ridiculous.

Put down ATGs+HMG combos and you JUST cannot charge a camped Axis player.

Waiting out doesnt help, due to the absurd balance difference between late game Axis units and Allies.

Just finished a game where 2 Shermans + 1 E8 Tank lost to a Axis with one P4 + 2 PAK guns on Semios, cause i refused to charge his camped position at the bottleneck entrance of axis base. His Mortars pounded out all buildings. Its ABSOLUTELY RETARDED how the very first few shots of a mortar wipe out squads - losing triple vet infantry (or down to 1 man) is plain ABSURD.

Panzer 4s and OST ATGs punch through Shermans like armor doesnt exist. Panzerschreks means i dont even bother with USF Med vehicles anymore, barring maybe a single early HT/M20.

Fuk, this, shit. USF has nothing to hard counter infantry, nothing to rush down axis camps, and absolutely nothing in any reasonable numbers to counter the eventual Panther/Tiger.

Garbage introduced into Axis since vCOH that i can point out:

- Panzerschreked Volks. Lol at 1-2 shotting Shermans AND Infantry with the basic OKW Infantry, once they get VET, which is quite simply just a matter of time.

- Sniping Mortars. LAUGHABLE how accurate theyve made Mortar. Once single well placed squad makes 2p maps IMPOSSIBLE to challenge. Plain Absurd.

- Complete and utter uselessness of USF Medium vehicles. They die quicker than RearEch squads. From M-20 to Stuar, two shots from a PAK, 2-3 shots from a Volks with Panzerschrek

Very very disappointed. Glad i only put 24$ into this game. I remember all the reasons i stopped playing vCOH. This is worse.

TLDR: Axis camps with HMG/Mortar/ATs and T1 Infantry spam till the P4s and Tiger/Panther arrives. In the meantime, just absorbing USFs assaults leads his infantry to 3-5 star VET and then end-game is LAUGHABLE. Its so pointless and repetitive. Im controlling 65-70% of the map and yet the Axis wins, since all he needs to do is camp it out. Lock out one part of map with his movable trucks if its OKW or a HMG+PAK+Mortar combo, and then use his infantry blob to dominate the other half. Plain frakin bullshit. Im so frustrated - losing to clearly inferior newbards.

What can I say.. I could say LP2 like all the other people but, I'd rather tell you the truth.

Coh2 is a god awful game.

That is the end of the story.

Badly designed and if you actually though coh wasn't that great then, play another 50 games and you'll be back to it in a flash.

It's not just USF that is like this, play any of the other factions the weakness of this game is very quickly revealed.

You are very lucky to have spent 24 bucks, IMO 23 of those 24 dollars is just in the name COH alone, they game isn't worth it.. I paid for the collectors edition to "support" relic before I knew what I was getting into, never making that mistake again.

Edit: to actually give you advice, if you think mortar is powerful get yourself a scott or two and then just laugh as you wipe squads from 2 screens away with no micro at all.

For vehicles use the p4 strafe and watch it ruin the most expensive of armour, with both bases covered you should do well. Hope that helps

Eh, i appreciate the tips, but as much as i enjoy the frantic pace of this game, the 'micro-tax' on USF is absurd.

Majority Axis players just dig in and camp. 1-2 Mortars, sniping from near their base at the key VPs/Fuel/Ammo points is so ridiculous.

Put down ATGs+HMG combos and you JUST cannot charge a camped Axis player.

Waiting out doesnt help, due to the absurd balance difference between late game Axis units and Allies.

Just finished a game where 2 Shermans + 1 E8 Tank lost to a Axis with one P4 + 2 PAK guns on Semios, cause i refused to charge his camped position at the bottleneck entrance of axis base. His Mortars pounded out all buildings. Its ABSOLUTELY RETARDED how the very first few shots of a mortar wipe out squads - losing triple vet infantry (or down to 1 man) is plain ABSURD.

Panzer 4s and OST ATGs punch through Shermans like armor doesnt exist. Panzerschreks means i dont even bother with USF Med vehicles anymore, barring maybe a single early HT/M20.

Fuk, this, shit. USF has nothing to hard counter infantry, nothing to rush down axis camps, and absolutely nothing in any reasonable numbers to counter the eventual Panther/Tiger.

Garbage introduced into Axis since vCOH that i can point out:

- Panzerschreked Volks. Lol at 1-2 shotting Shermans AND Infantry with the basic OKW Infantry, once they get VET, which is quite simply just a matter of time.

- Sniping Mortars. LAUGHABLE how accurate theyve made Mortar. Once single well placed squad makes 2p maps IMPOSSIBLE to challenge. Plain Absurd.

- Complete and utter uselessness of USF Medium vehicles. They die quicker than RearEch squads. From M-20 to Stuar, two shots from a PAK, 2-3 shots from a Volks with Panzerschrek

Very very disappointed. Glad i only put 24$ into this game. I remember all the reasons i stopped playing vCOH. This is worse.

TLDR: Axis camps with HMG/Mortar/ATs and T1 Infantry spam till the P4s and Tiger/Panther arrives. In the meantime, just absorbing USFs assaults leads his infantry to 3-5 star VET and then end-game is LAUGHABLE. Its so pointless and repetitive. Im controlling 65-70% of the map and yet the Axis wins, since all he needs to do is camp it out. Lock out one part of map with his movable trucks if its OKW or a HMG+PAK+Mortar combo, and then use his infantry blob to dominate the other half. Plain frakin bullshit. Im so frustrated - losing to clearly inferior newbards.

Wow i could say ltp and.. i do say ltp. It seems you have no clue how the american faction works. The medium and light vehicles are your biggest advantage in the early-midgame. Saying the m20 is useless with it's mines (which are the best in the entire game), so far to how to counter the puma, and it's very early appeareance on the battlefield it is really good. And one question. Have you ever tried the m15AA HT which is one of the best vehicles in the game? Can't tell you much about the mortars, but if you see a mortar shelling you move your stuff instead of staying there. And really mate, who the fuck is charging into the enemys panther and 2 paks without going in there with inf first? You are saying you got some problems with the okw elite inf, while playing airborne doc with paras and their m1919, they have a surpression ability btw which is usefull to deal with elite inf. Instead of shermans i would recommend to use the jacksons as at vehicles, their damage and penetration is much more superior to the sherman. The sherman is a very good all around vehicle and is maybe one of the tanks with the highest potential to fight infantry.

What can I say.. I could say LP2 like all the other people but, I'd rather tell you the truth.

Coh2 is a god awful game.

That is the end of the story.

Badly designed and if you actually though coh wasn't that great then, play another 50 games and you'll be back to it in a flash.


I paid for the collectors edition to "support" relic before I knew what I was getting into, never making that mistake again.

Agreed with this.....I think they will fix it, but at the moment its broken....in comparison to coh1 of course..

I also spent the money on collectors addition to support them....

I supported a beta release with missing features.....never supporting sega/relic again (especially after rome 2)

Eh, i appreciate the tips, but as much as i enjoy the frantic pace of this game, the
Panzer 4s and OST ATGs punch through Shermans like armor doesnt exist. Panzerschreks means i dont even bother with USF Med vehicles anymore, barring maybe a single early HT/M20.

Romeo told me one time that it doesn't matter whether you drive your USF vehicle forwards or backwards into battle