Please help, or, the continuing adventures of us sucking

This particular replay involves us having a really strong start and gaining a gargantuan fuel advantage, which we quickly squander, allow ourselves to stall, and get annihilated. As you see:

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  VS

  Adam sloth_bear

  Prostenal SteelHero

  More us sucking for critique

  by: ThoseDeafMutes map: Lierneux

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The main problem is we suck. That is the clinical diagnosis, given to us by a registered GP. Sloth_bear, my partner, decided to dabble in Soviets and we're getting annihilated.

Although in this particular game we squandered an opportunity, usually we don't do nearly that well. We usually get stomped in all phases of the game. Things we have problems with:

1. Panzershreks everywhere.
2. MGs everywhere
3. Basically every single Axis unit
4. (Late game) basically every single Axis unit, even more so.

I know the advice is "destroy them before they get late units." I'm hoping for something more specific that we can implement. I would greatly appreciate continued advice from the forums - we've previously sought advice for 2v2 USA (which we only "kind of" succeeded at). I really don't just want to resort to always playing Axis in 2v2.

This particular replay involves us having a really strong start and gaining a gargantuan fuel advantage, which we quickly squander, allow ourselves to stall, and get annihilated. As you see:

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Adam sloth_bear

  Prostenal SteelHero

  More us sucking for critique

  by: ThoseDeafMutes map: Lierneux

  1

  -

The main problem is we suck. That is the clinical diagnosis, given to us by a registered GP. Sloth_bear, my partner, decided to dabble in Soviets and we're getting annihilated.

Although in this particular game we squandered an opportunity, usually we don't do nearly that well. We usually get stomped in all phases of the game. Things we have problems with:

1. Panzershreks everywhere.
2. MGs everywhere
3. Basically every single Axis unit
4. (Late game) basically every single Axis unit, even more so.

I know the advice is "destroy them before they get late units." I'm hoping for something more specific that we can implement. I would greatly appreciate continued advice from the forums - we've previously sought advice for 2v2 USA (which we only "kind of" succeeded at). I really don't just want to resort to always playing Axis in 2v2.

The best way to learn is to watch others play and observe their every move , watch good replays and you will have all the tactics covered. i dont know if i can suggest youtube names in this site but i learnt all little things, tactics by watching propogandacast, dane is amazing us noobs can learn a lot from him and his sense of humor is good.

Do you have any specific replays in mind?

We both work full time and play other things, so "training time" is extremely limited.

I also go to work but every now and then when I take a break I watch propogandacast youtube learn a lot from Danes commentary.

For 2v2 USF you could always look at Romeo replays.

Me and my mates had the same issues (not that we have an easy time now) at the start with playing USF vs OKW. The matchup is really lopsided, you need to push aggressively through the early game. If the map is 70 - 30 in your favor the match is actually going 50/50.


One thing of note is that for you to kill certain units like KTs or Elephants you need a huge advantage in armor, so really try to not lose your tanks. You're gonna need them grouped, and you're gonna have to keep the panzer numbers down otherwise they'll just roll over you with their insane armor. Remember USF AT guns are crap this patch* (because of a bug they get no cover) so if you get behind you're utterly screwed.


Wehr is completely different and not at all as difficult. You'll actually win infantry vs infantry battles there even lategame so you don't need overwhelming force. Standard tactic for the germans is still to hold 30-40% of the map and fuel point/fuel drop/opel truck everything and spam tigers. Regular tigers aren't that bad as long as you outnumber them at least 2 - 1 with Jacksons/shermans, preferably 3 - 1. Remember you haven't won at all even if the enemy is only holding a few points, get your armor groups to massive size ASAP. Remember this also applies to you having a massive armor army, remember that his infantry can effectively combat your armor so even if you feel ahead with 5 tanks you can lose it very quickly vs 1 panther and some schreks. Don't let them come back.


*As in shittier than usual, they're not that great at stopping an armor push in general anyway. Use them to even out slug matches. At an armor charge they're liable to miss all their shots before the tanks are behind you, or deal pitiful damage even to P4s. My mate has had some success in getting 4 bazookas to keep around for armor shocks, but don't expect them to even glimpse the glorious defense panzershrecks grant the axis. If you can grab a schrek don't forget to laugh uncontrollably as you now possess the power of greyskull. Guard that squad and destroy everything.

Ronny has a lot of really good points. I'd add that stealing anything is a massive advantage and should be prioritized over all other objectives, and it's usually worth it to sacrifice a squad to steal a german weapon. MG34s, MG42s, german mortar and pak are all devastating weapons in USF hands. The panzershreck makes your riflemen as like unto a god.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, but does anyone have anything specific to add as far as builds go? In general, the "if you're 70-30, you're actually 50-50" is something we kind of understand, but it's not like we're not trying to crush the enemies completely. In this particular game, through a combination of bad luck and not fully understanding how to work together (with Sov as one team) properly, they managed to stall us and come back. We tried to leverage our advantage, but it just didn't work.

In *MOST* of our games, we don't even get an advantage at all. I feel like the problem is that:

1. We're not sure what builds to use
2. We're not sure how to effectively make use of soviet units.

We're both fairly experienced with USF, not expert level but I was top 400 in 1v1 a few patches ago. Sov is new for us though. And every new patch breaks the old expert replays! So it's more "HOW do we usually have to secure advantages" and "HOW do we break fortified points to uproot the OKW?"

The answers to these questions are really complicated I understand. But general pointers - even to old strategy guides that might be applicable - would be appreciated.

Hm...using Sov units. Well,

Guards aren't that great
Shocks are great, provided you smoke to get in close
Snipers...meh. Unless you're good with your micro/ babysitting
Scout car...fairly easily countered at this point
Cons...decent I guess. Good for using molotovs and AT grenades
Maxim...pretty good
Mortar ..pretty good
Deploy those two together, and advance slowly
ZiS...I really like it. Yes, it's not very agile, but decent against armor, and the barrage is pretty good for breaking up fortified positions, or even to hit blobs
T-34...you need about 3 to really be a threat. Even then, they're kind of fragile.
Katyusha ...not bad, but comes fairly late I guess, and will explode if even looked at by any Axis unit
T-70..not that great, unless you want to harrass some isolated points, or provide some back up to lone squads capping somewhere away from battle
IS2/ISU152...it is what it is. Actually pretty vulnerable if unsupported.
KV1...not really worth it, but soaks up damage
KV8...good against infantry, but at that point , schreks will take it out fairly handily. Use with support.

I guess none of this is new; support your units, and don't get over-ambitious. The current meta supports choosing a commander that has shocks, and some kind of heavy tank. Can't go wrong.

Although I'm experimenting now, the usual USF build before this patch was just whatever amount of riflemen/REs/caches you felt comfortable with --> Fast T2, m20 or AAHT --> Fast T4 Sherman/Jackson. Sprinkle in an MG/pathfinder/atgun and replace any troops you lose/add troops to about 4 squads with paras.

It depends on what you're facing. If you're facing 6 MGs maybe you need smoke grenades. At least one USF player on each team needs to get a medic truck. Standard build for me would be to not get it before t2, but I've seen that work in team games too so.


Anyway last patch I always went paratrooper and I always tried to get as few riflemen and as many paras as possible. Now that paratroopers share the worst vet in the game with riflemen I'm trying to diversify (though I don't own any commanders, so not easy).


I'm not much of an authority on soviet builds. Personally I'd go 3 maxims, 1 conscript and a field gun into t4 (shocktroopers would fit nicely here), or penal legions with a sniper into whatever felt right. But I only played Soviet back before the expansion, and had a big lull of not playing at all before that so...

I wouldn't trust the conscript ppsh spam I used back in the day at all in OKW team games. I put high value on SU76s though, and a SU85 can probably support a sherman real good though I haven't really seen that.

I play a lot of 2s on my stream with all factions and I am going to have a weekly event where this kind of replay can be sent in to be analysed and critiqued so stay tuned for that (just working out things like artwork).

I don't have much time to answer in too much depth but here's a few routes you could take. I am assuming double Soviets here:

Player 1: T1, Sniper, Cons, M3, Cons, Cons, AT nades with the M3 being garrisoned by a flame thrower engineer which allows you the mobility to chase down squads and have a good sense of mobility. The 3x Conscripts into AT nades provides a decent mid-game screen against 222 and the likes. Don't neglect mines. Add a second sniper as needed to allow you to compete with the German's superior infantry with support from Player 2 for your flanks.

Player 2: T2, Maxim, Maxim, Cons, Cons or the reverse with Cons first. Add a mortar as desired, ZiS gun around the 7-8 minute mark is never a bad idea.

You now have a choice, depending on doctrines and the map to commit to T3 (T-70 / T34) pressure by player 2 and T4 (Katyusha, primarily) to complement if you decide to tech.

If you don't decide to tech, consider back teching to T2 for player 1 to allow both of you to field ZiS guns so you can stall but this will involve a lot of tight camping and flank prevention.

General Tips

• Always lay mines on the flanks (obvious but neglected at times).
  
  
• Pick complimenting doctrines (Shock Rifle Combined Arms & Guard Motor Coordination for example) to allow you to push at similar timings if you're going with this play style.
  
  
• Keep your Conscripts near your support units at ALL times to provide AT-grenade snaring. This will save your life on countless times if you do it right. Mines & AT-grenades are the foundation of a T1/T2 strategy to function and transition effectively when your armour starts rolling out, so it can be a bit daunting if things go to crap early game as a result of a few mistakes but I assure you, it's very strong.
  

Doctrines

These are potent in 2v2s (even if I think some are blatantly OP):

• Mechanized Support (ISU-152) & Counterattack Tactics
  
  
• Mechanized Support & Guard Motor coordination
  
  
• Guard Motor coordination & Shock Rifle Frontline
  

USF Tips

• Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, Lieutenant --> M20 OR AA HT --> Major IF not choosing Rifle Company. If you're going Rifle company, I advise both a Lieutenant & Captain (if you need tech from both) and holding out till Easy 8s.
  
  
• Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, Lieutenant (same as above) OR Captain with Stuart / AT gun support.
  
  
• Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, Lieutenant (same as above) INTO 2/3 x Fuel Cache --> Major, M8 Scotts / Jacksons as needed. Airborne works really well with this for the filler Paratroopers & P-47s for pushes.
  

I hope this has helped a little with Soviet build orders. (Sorry I didn't have time to look at the replay so I didn't know what factions you were asking for help with).

OT: Very nice post from Siberian, can really see that he is lead strategist. /OT

Now will check the tips from this thread.

OT: Very nice post from Siberian, can really see that he is lead strategist. /OT

Now will check the tips from this thread.

Thank you for the kind words, Flamee.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.

Thanks Siberian.

For reference we are mixed team - 1x Sov 1x USF. It's theoretically possible we might try 2x Sov at some stage but we're originally a 2x Wehr, then a 2x USF team, so soviets are still something we're dipping our toes into the water with.