tiger aces

Just add like 100 fuel cost to it and I think it will be fine. This allows the Ostheer player to stabilize mid game with some armor, but keeps him from abusing lots of armor then call in the Tiger Ace.

I really don't even see the Tiger Ace very often, most of the time it is a regular Tiger I see.

I think the quality and quantity of counters needs to increase> you should essentially have 5 mediums/tank destroyers to there 1 heavy.

My thoughts exactly. Reliable and effective counters need to be present for every unit type in the game. Theoretically, Alies should (and do?) have a numbers advantage over their Axis counterparts. However, Relic has noted that it is a lot mroe harder to micro their more numerous and fragile units

I'm good with Tiger Ace. I'm more afraid of KT or JT. TA is just fine. No big deal.

i would love to see more regular tigers than tiger aces. i would prefer if people stick to discussing primarily about the unit performance, rather than its cost.

there's a limit to where things can cost are bomb but being game winners they are still purchased, things like KT/JT and tiger aces.

@australianmagic, idk, i fear the JT because as usf i have no counters, KT isnt so bad since it has only 40 range, im quite comfortable with using jacksons to pound it from afar and drive it off.

but against the TA, i cant quite do that because i only outrange it by 10range, im more likely to enter a slugfest with the TA before i can bring it down to half HP and probably lose my jacksons/su85 to a couple of TA shots while it scoots away after popping smoke. so in that scenario, i'd take a loss while he only has to head back to repairs.

this is the problem for me, i can never match a well managed tiger ace and its not because i lack the capacity to match in micro and tactics. but more likely i have to spend so much more resources, to get dedicated anti tank units that are more vulnerable than the tiger aces is to them.

Tiger ace is fine. The old version was OP and had no counter.

TA was nerfed patches ago. Now its just a vet 3 tiger with target weak point. It also is in a doctrine that has no arty whatsoever and takes 16cps to arrive, upon arrival your economy gets choked to hell. Both allied factions have tier units that outrange the Ace.

what do you people need next.. nerf stug, coz it rotates too fast? or the ostwind, coz it shoots too fast and kills inf?

Tiger Ace and buyable veterancy is idiotic in the first place...also Smaug,i like your "just a vet 3 tiger with target weak point"

Guys pls dont necro year old thread... oh wait u guys are actually serious... TA is fine, and has been for a long time now.

Tiger aces is fine, it is a vet 3 tiger witch cost 800 manpower to call in and drains almost all your feul for the rest of the game.

Is it December 2013 again? If you want to whine about the Tiger Ace, you come far too late.

I'm sorry about the game you lost... Next time use mines.

Too bad the us has only 2 options for mines: M20 mine which is expensive, and the crappy 5 muni put down by only doctrinally units/ added abilities.

You don't defeat a Tiger Ace by killing the Tiger Ace

You defeat the Tiger Ace by damaging it and trying to kill everything else (preferably starting with his engineers)


The ideal is to have this:

A crippled Tiger Ace sitting in his base or limping back to it, as long as it exists it is tanking his economy, as long as it is crippled it is no threat to you

Kill everything else he owns, preferably starting with his Pios

Take total map control while he desperately tries to save up enough MP to get some Pios to repair it

You don't defeat a Tiger Ace by killing the Tiger Ace

You defeat the Tiger Ace by damaging it and trying to kill everything else (preferably starting with his engineers)


The ideal is to have this:

A crippled Tiger Ace sitting in his base or limping back to it, as long as it exists it is tanking his economy, as long as it is crippled it is no threat to you

Kill everything else he owns, preferably starting with his Pios

Take total map control while he desperately tries to save up enough MP to get some Pios to repair it

what kind of logic is that? the TA limping back to its base will get repaired, by his allies and free repair station. so you want to take all that infantry losses/tank losses to damage it, while it goes back for free repairs? already with 50 range, disabling the TA with abilities is almost out of the question, not to mention its not 100% penetration with AT nades anymore.

it will always be a threat as long as its alive. it needs a much more solid counter than the current ones. reducing its range is a good start/reducing its anti infantry would also work.

Killing it is desirable

Driving it off damaged is satisfactory


Or to look at this another way:


Normally attacking an enemy vehicle, losing units to do so and not killing it is a disaster.

You lost a lot and fed it vet


With the Tiger Ace neither is a consideration:

It imposes attrition upon its owner just by existing

There is no issue with feeding it vet because it is at max vet anyway


It's not worth taking heavy loses to kill it when you can take light loses and damage it your units survive and gain vet. It gains nothing from the experience.

Even better if you use munitions abilities because that doesn't hurt you at all; and mobility kills are golden.

Engine damage gives it a long time on the field when it isn't doing anything, either it limps back to base or pios come to repair it. If pios come out, kill them whilst they are repairing it(bombs, mortars, rockets, offmaps, whatever)

+++++++++++++++++

You appear to be having difficulty dealing with it, fine, and you are a much better player than me in your chosen modes.

However consider that there are options other than a straight up fight with it

Options that maximise it's disadvantages

It is, as noted, good in a straight fight, don't give it one

Well the Tiger Ace is a doctrinal unit, so not everybody has it. It is fine as it is and please stop calling for Axis nerfs everywhere i do play mostly USF and i do have trouble with Axis let's call it design, but not all units needs to be nerfed to the ground to call it "balanced". And like Van Vort said this games needs also other solutions to problems not simple A move to win or slugfest tactics.

Wow, you just suggested 6 DOCTRINAL counters to this unit. Any unit in the game should be counterable with nondoctrinal units, because otherwise you are just feeding the call-in meta problem. In terms of bleeding manpower, good luck attacking infantry with anything that won't be countered by the tiger ace. Hell, any non-doctrinal AT counter gets absolutely murdered by the Tiger Ace. SU-85s and jackson can get hit by target weak point, and then they are dead. AT guns will get sniped quite handily, especially since the zis only has about a 60% chance to penetrate the thing.

I would be fine with the tiger ace if it actually required a fuel investment. It does not. Do not point out the reduced income after it is called in. The reduced income is balanced out by the fact that you can still purchase other armor before the tiger ace, and that you will be destroying your opponents army and manpower income with the ace. At the very least, I feel that the tiger ace income reduction should also last for 5 minutes after the tank dies.

Tiger Ace is also doctrinal. period
Since when Soviet do NOT rely on non-doctrinal counter?
I once suggested fuel should be reduced for a certain amount of time like 10-15 mins and apparently people think that's not a good idea as well

And if you can't counter a Tiger Ace with all the BS soviet can field? L2P

Tiger Ace is also doctrinal. period
Since when Soviet do NOT rely on non-doctrinal counter?

and that is the issue with this damn game

I never see Tiger aces anymore, but I usually play any game mode that's not 1v1. Maybe the Tiger Ace is a problem in 1v1s but 1v1s is not well balanced anyways. There are flaws in the Tiger Ace doctrine which the allies can exploit. The Elite doctrine does not have any offmap counters to artillery so the artillery can work well against them. They also can't counter an ISU152 which like you said with the Tiger ace can counter everything but with 70 range instead of 50. If you feel like you're going to get abused by a Tiger Ace just abuse the player back with some ISUs.

Jinseual, surely you meant that you play 1v1s and that only 1v1 is even close to being balanced, right? Because what you wrote is nonsense.

I haven't faced a TA in forever, but I could see where they may still cause some players trouble.

and that is the issue with this damn game

And that's also why soviets is giving axis shitty headaches across all game modes

cons maxim Zis spam into ISU152