tiger aces

i think its high time this unit its brought back into the spot light and discussed thoroughly.

sporting a good amount of hp, on a decent chassis with a truckload of abilities and most importantly, that 50 range dual purpose gun. with generally careful heavy tank play style, this tank is a monster, often sniping infantry, tanks AND AT GUNS from a good distance away without exposing itself to much counter fire.

while expensive and a resource hog, i think it brings in way too much for what its worth and often turn games around by playing the attrition war, killing enemy units from a mile away and drag the game on to a victory.

it has all the benefits of the panther(50 range) but its with that kind of anti infantry that makes this tank a total horror to fight against. unlike the panther, the tiger ace can tackle anti tank guns and push back infantry without much of an issue because of its anti infantry power.

because of that huge AI and AT, its counters are either jacksons, su85s or having overextended itself. as for jacksons and su85, while somewhat effective, they are countered much harder by the tiger ace than them countering the tiger ace, which puts the tiger ace at an extremely advantageous position.

now, that plethora of abilities it has, most importantly, the smoke and blitz. even more disgusting is having these 2 abilities. when fighting at 50 range isnt enough, if its threatened by jacksons or su85, it can pop smoke to gtfo, or blitz in to counter that 10 range advantage. more often than not, that 10 range advantage isnt going to do a whole lot and the su85/jackson is likely to get destroyed or will not be able to finish off the tiger ace.

i think tiger ace need a good toning down, either it should have a 40 range gun with all its current capabilities, or a 50 range gun with a huge nerf to anti infantry capabilities.

what do you guys think?

yep. exactly what i think about it. best gamedesign.

Agreed, something needs to be done about it. Though it should never have appeared in the game in the first place...

Is it December 2013 again? If you want to whine about the Tiger Ace, you come far too late.

I'm sorry about the game you lost... Next time use mines.

Is it December 2013 again? If you want to whine about the Tiger Ace, you come far too late.

I'm sorry about the game you lost... Next time use mines.

not really bitter about the game i lost, im more bitter about the games im going to lose because of tiger aces in the future.

mines are not a good counter to everything when tiger ace can fight head on. if tiger aces have to rely on flanking to get effective hits then you are right. you cover flanks with mines but ur frontline is still going to be direct combat units. problem is tiger ace is still much more powerful than any of the AT units that allies can field.

im sorry but mines are not a counter and neither is it a good argument. you might as well suggest mines as a prepatch isu152 counter. please try harder.

I'd say all heavies ruin the game, once they start appearing on the field the game becomes incredibly boring.

I think the quality and quantity of counters needs to increase> you should essentially have 5 mediums/tank destroyers to there 1 heavy.

Dude, you are stuck a few patches ago, please update coh2.exe XD

Heavy tanks and especially in combination with veterancy is completely broken. If the player controlling the tank is somewhat decent and doesn't overextend, it is completely impossible to counter.

To finish off a heavy tank backing away you need to chase it with Jacksons. In a majority of cases this ends up with your Jacksons failing to reliably penetrate, and getting killed either by the heavy tank or sniped by shrecks. The heavy tank gets away and is repaired to full. Pretty much GG from there.

You can be even or ahead the entire game but if your opponent manages to save up for a heavy it is more or less over. You literally have to push your opponent off the map within the first 10 minutes to rule out these ridiculous heavy tank comebacks.

A large part of this brokenness originates from veterancy. If you manage to get vet 3-5 on for example a jagdpanzer it will turn into pseudo jagdpanther that can also easily take on at least two Jacksons.

The ridiculous veterancy modifiers (and LMGs) is also what contributes to late game infantry battles turning into shit blobs.

Bottom line: Hit heavy tanks hard with the nerf stick, make them more in line with medium tanks. Tone down all veterancy bonuses, remove vet 4-5 from OKW (it is a broken idea)

Heavy tanks and especially in combination with veterancy is completely broken. If the player controlling the tank is somewhat decent and doesn't overextend, it is completely impossible to counter.

To finish off a heavy tank backing away you need to chase it with Jacksons. In a majority of cases this ends up with your Jacksons failing to reliably penetrate, and getting killed either by the heavy tank or sniped by shrecks. The heavy tank gets away and is repaired to full. Pretty much GG from there.

You can be even or ahead the entire game but if your opponent manages to save up for a heavy it is more or less over. You literally have to push your opponent off the map within the first 10 minutes to rule out these ridiculous heavy tank comebacks.

A large part of this brokenness originates from veterancy. If you manage to get vet 3-5 on for example a jagdpanzer it will turn into pseudo jagdpanther that can also easily take on at least two Jacksons.

The ridiculous veterancy modifiers (and LMGs) is also what contributes to late game infantry battles turning into shit blobs.

Bottom line: Hit heavy tanks hard with the nerf stick, make them more in line with medium tanks. Tone down all veterancy bonuses, remove vet 4-5 from OKW (it is a broken idea)

QFT.

Its the veterancy that makes things broken.

Is it December 2013 again? If you want to whine about the Tiger Ace, you come far too late.

I'm sorry about the game you lost... Next time use mines.

AchtArcher the only time I see you posting nowadays it seems is just to call Allies players whiners. Hey buddy, your faction bias is showing.

Tiger Ace is fine, build SU-85 it has longer range than Tiger or build IS-2 to absorb damage with flanking T-34 or use ISU. You should have at least 2-3 tanks out by the time they get a Tiger Ace. Bait, ambush, and flank. Remember it is not always about destroying the other tank as it is about driving it off, VPs not kills determine games. Too many players are only concerned about how many kills they get and overextend or don't focus on securing VPs.

The whole Problem with the tiger ace is, that unlike other heavies it doesn't cost any fuel. So you can dominate the entire game, as long as your enemy can reach 15 cp he can call this beast in and sometimes it actually works. Especially americans have a big problem against this thing. Because of the high range it has it is good even against jacksons.

Yep, just needs a fuel cost of some sort (150?) and it'll be fine.

it cripples manpower income. its fine.

This tank will be fine once it costs fuel. Currently like blitz it is a get out of jail free card or a salt on the wound. Basically you can dominate the Ostheer player all game and even if he has not a whole lot of map control, he can still field tanks and then float manpower to call in the beast. On the other hand you can be loosing and trying to come back. Normally there is a limit based off of fuel income on the number of tanks at a certain time but with the Tiger ace they can just float manpower for 2 minutes and call it in.

It is totally fine being a monster of a tank, it is after all a tiger ace. However it is not ok that it cheats the resource system that balances out unit composition. There is a reason Industry and Opel blitz trucks got nerfed pretty hard, That is because anything that radically changes the incomes of a player throws balance way off

Hey if you switch out the word "TIger Ace" for ISU152 it would still make sense


Anyways, is it me or is the TIger Ace really difficult to kill? Does its veterancy add lots of HP or armor to it? Even when i gang up on it with multiple tanks, it has some kind of massive HP pool to soak up damage.

After all that bullshit,

Learn2play.

Hint: ISU, IS2, Bombing Run, T34/85 Swarm; MARK TARGET + P47
or drain the opposite's manpower like crazy

After all that bullshit,

Learn2play.

Hint: ISU, IS2, Bombing Run, T34/85 Swarm; MARK TARGET + P47
or drain the opposite's manpower like crazy

Wow, you just suggested 6 DOCTRINAL counters to this unit. Any unit in the game should be counterable with nondoctrinal units, because otherwise you are just feeding the call-in meta problem. In terms of bleeding manpower, good luck attacking infantry with anything that won't be countered by the tiger ace. Hell, any non-doctrinal AT counter gets absolutely murdered by the Tiger Ace. SU-85s and jackson can get hit by target weak point, and then they are dead. AT guns will get sniped quite handily, especially since the zis only has about a 60% chance to penetrate the thing.

I would be fine with the tiger ace if it actually required a fuel investment. It does not. Do not point out the reduced income after it is called in. The reduced income is balanced out by the fact that you can still purchase other armor before the tiger ace, and that you will be destroying your opponents army and manpower income with the ace. At the very least, I feel that the tiger ace income reduction should also last for 5 minutes after the tank dies.