Can someone explain how shock troops survivability work??
First Survivability
Sometimes they drop easily one by one like normal Panzergrenadiers;
sometimes they keep getting shot to under 40% HP, but not one model dies.
What the hell? What is the damage received/entity killed so inconsistent??
Secondly I think vs Ostheer they are a bit too good.
vs OKW, it is fine where it is, because soviet inf is made from paper and they are the only ones that can stand up to OKW elite infantry; but vs Ostheer?
at 2CP, ostheer do not have any high DPS infantry weapons that can effectively kill them and drain manpower, sure MG suppression will stop them; but they can just ignore it by throwing a smoke grenade and run in
The problem i think lies on the smoke ability and the high armor+DPS value for 2 CP.
While they are highly invulnerable, they deal very high DPS to everything, wiping retreat weapon squads too quickly.
in COH1, only brits commando has smoke+nade and such high DPS, and they are vulnerable to kill.
Shock Troops Survivability & Role vs OH
30 Oct 2014, 11:29 AM
#1
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30 Oct 2014, 11:56 AM
#2
Posts: 760
So let me get this straight, shocks are the only soviet infantry that don't drop like flies and you want to nerf them? Even though you have lmgs, snipers, and scout cars. Even though they are very micro intensive units?
30 Oct 2014, 12:02 PM
#3
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
they have smoke grenades, because they have to close in. i think their dps only matters in maps like stalingrad or kharkov 2v2 ( so small and tight) or ettelbruck where a few shock troops can literally be around every corner or can swarm a whole map.
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30 Oct 2014, 12:04 PM
#4
Posts: 249
I don't understand why people have trouble dealing with smoke nades. Can't you just reposition when the smoke pops? Squad loses vis on your mg too so he has no idea where you will set it up while he is recovering from suppression.
30 Oct 2014, 12:08 PM
#5
Posts: 655
Permanently BannedThe CoH1 British Commando smoke ability and the Shock Troops smoke grenade are completely different abilities and used in different ways.
Secondly, an LMG gren (240 MP, 60 Muni) can blast apart a Shock squad (390 MP) from long range easily, if they are kept out in the open. This makes using Shock Troops only viable if they are used in close quarters or risky flanking.
The reason that sometimes the squad gets to 40% HP but all 6 models are still alive is because RNG. The dmg the squad has taken has been spread equally among the 6 members, as opposed to 1 or 2 models taking all the dmg and dying. This can happen to ANY squad in the game, not just shock troops.
Conclusion: Learn 2 Play
Secondly, an LMG gren (240 MP, 60 Muni) can blast apart a Shock squad (390 MP) from long range easily, if they are kept out in the open. This makes using Shock Troops only viable if they are used in close quarters or risky flanking.
The reason that sometimes the squad gets to 40% HP but all 6 models are still alive is because RNG. The dmg the squad has taken has been spread equally among the 6 members, as opposed to 1 or 2 models taking all the dmg and dying. This can happen to ANY squad in the game, not just shock troops.
Conclusion: Learn 2 Play
A Fallen Scrub
30 Oct 2014, 12:12 PM
#6
Posts: 117
keep 2 pgrens at mid distance and one lmg42 at the maximum possible distance. Yeah you need 3 units to counter them, however they will wipe out the shocks in 2 seconds then.
A 222 is also quite effective.
A 222 is also quite effective.
30 Oct 2014, 12:18 PM
#7
Posts: 1042
There's also these little used things called tanks which OH get which are superior to their all their allied counterparts...
30 Oct 2014, 12:26 PM
#8
Posts: 467
There's also these little used things called tanks which OH get which are superior to their all their allied counterparts...
like Tiger vs IS2...
30 Oct 2014, 12:29 PM
#9
Posts: 655
Permanently Banned
like Tiger vs IS2...
implying that matchup isn't completely RNG based...
A Fallen Scrub
30 Oct 2014, 12:40 PM
#10
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
like Tiger vs IS2...
IS-2 got better armor.
Tiger got better everything else.
Want to try again?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Oct 2014, 15:01 PM
#11
Posts: 467
IS-2 got better armor.
Tiger got better everything else.
Want to try again?
Wrong. IS2 more armor, faster, higher pen, wipes squads more etc
Tiger only got reload & blitz.
Try again.
30 Oct 2014, 15:06 PM
#12
Posts: 403
Wrong. IS2 more armor, faster, higher pen, wipes squads more etc
Tiger only got reload & blitz.
Try again.
You need to re-roll beacuse I know we arent talking about the same IS-2.
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30 Oct 2014, 15:18 PM
#13
Posts: 158
IS-2 got better armor.
Tiger got better everything else.
Want to try again?
IS-2 beats tiger head to head usually.
Tiger is better vs medium armor and IS is better vs heavy
30 Oct 2014, 15:26 PM
#14
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
As much as I hate facing them and getting flanked by them I have to say they are fine.
Mgs, snipers, scout cars and pzgrens focusing while they close in - Ostheer has enough methods to deal with them at 2 cp.
Mgs, snipers, scout cars and pzgrens focusing while they close in - Ostheer has enough methods to deal with them at 2 cp.
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Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
30 Oct 2014, 15:27 PM
#15
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Wrong. IS2 more armor
Neglected by axis better AT.
faster
Blitz
higher pen
Neglected by axis greater armor(Tiger itself being the only exception).
wipes squads more etc
Once in a blue moon when it decided to hit middle of the squad instead of sector behind.
Tiger got incomparably better AI since before WFA release, it may one shot rarely, but it wipes squads more effectively with its incomparably better accuracy and better rof.
Try again.
Right back at you, again.
I'm rarely saying anything without being able to back it up with arguments you know
Also given how quickly this thread got derailed from the original shock qq, I guess we can sum it up with "op doesn't have a clue" or "sierra legacy lives within this one" and move on.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
30 Oct 2014, 15:27 PM
#16
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Double post.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
30 Oct 2014, 15:56 PM
#17
Posts: 467
You need to re-roll beacuse I know we arent talking about the same IS-2.
coh2-stats.com
Neglected by axis better AT.
Since you don't like Obers, I guess I can argue that they are fine since allies have B4.
Wrong #1
coh2-stats.com
Blitz
You do realise that Tiger isn't using Blitz for 99% of the time?
Wrong #2
coh-2stats.com
Neglected by axis greater armor(Tiger itself being the only exception).
Only thing you have said so far that half makes sense.
Once in a blue moon when it decided to hit middle of the squad instead of sector behind.
Tiger got incomparably better AI since before WFA release, it may one shot rarely, but it wipes squads more effectively with its incomparably better accuracy and better rof.
Because IS-2 won't wreck numerous volks squads before they can put a dent in it. IS-2 squad wipes all the time.
Right back at you, again.
I'm rarely saying anything without being able to back it up with arguments you know
'Tiger got incomparably better AI since before WFA release, it may one shot rarely, but it wipes squads more effectively with its incomparably better accuracy and better rof.'
30 Oct 2014, 19:37 PM
#18
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
O bother. From my experience tiger will generally lose to the is2. I've actually had a KT almost lose to one too, a lot of unlucky bounces though. No decent player will send in an unsupported is2 or tiger though so it really boils down to supporting infantry and weapons.
Also the is2 doesn't wipe squads that often. It really doesnt. It's safe to send shreks against it because at most it'll kill 2-3 models. It's a much better AT vehicle
Also the is2 doesn't wipe squads that often. It really doesnt. It's safe to send shreks against it because at most it'll kill 2-3 models. It's a much better AT vehicle
30 Oct 2014, 19:46 PM
#19
Posts: 403
coh2-stats.com
Thats cool, Ill just ignore the times when it has beaten and outright beaten my IS-2, supported and unsupported.
Annddd the tiger seems to oneshot my ptrs cons more often than the KT does.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
30 Oct 2014, 19:55 PM
#20
Posts: 308
Shocks aren't really that hard to counter tbh. If your opponent gets t1 and uses shocks, get a 222 out since your opponent won't have a hard counter unless you hit a mine.
Open maps, lmg grens will work fine. But if you play a cqc map, use the 250 halftrack with the PGs (requires agren doc). They obliterate shocks and it's easy vet for PGs.
Open maps, lmg grens will work fine. But if you play a cqc map, use the 250 halftrack with the PGs (requires agren doc). They obliterate shocks and it's easy vet for PGs.
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