End the Abuse Help the Raketenwerfer today

So Soviet t1 vs OKW is very strong, probably too strong for the simple reason that scout cars are nearly unstoppable without shreks.

The Raketenwerfer really needs some sort of buff so it can effectively stop scout cars in the early game. Scout cars often drive through its arc of fire and don't even get shot at, much less get hit. Even if it could fire or hit, scout cars vision range allows them to see the racketenwerfer if its in range, making it almost impossible to suprise them and easily allowing them to flank or outmanuever this slow static weapon.

The match up essentially can come down to a crap fest of multiple scout cars driving all over the map and destroying OKW squads. Abuse is thrown around alot, but i really just think it's not fun to play with or against forcing a faction to rely on static weapons that don't even work to fight scout cars. It makes the game feel clunky and more cheesy than dynamic and interesting, much more so than other forms of "soviet cheese"

I think the Raketen needs a faster training time, a larger arc of fire, a faster setup/teardown time or all of the above. It just needs to be more flexible than other at guns since it is being used to counter lighter vehicles earlier in the game.

Does anybody else agree disagree?
Are scout cars vs Raketens fine?
Does OKW need this weakness?
Raketens OP?

I actually think Kubel + Sturmpioneers are sufficient. Kubel does decent damage at long range against the M3, if your oppenent comes rushing in your Sturmpioneers do the job.

You gotta play very careful against Soviet T1 with OKW (with Ostheer aswell). But if you manage to deal with the M3 early on, your Soviet opponent is in deep trouble.

M3 is a high risk, high reward unit.

I think the Raketen needs a faster training time, a larger arc of fire, a faster setup/teardown time or all of the above. It just needs to be more flexible than other at guns since it is being used to counter lighter vehicles earlier in the game.

Raketens compensate their early struggle through incredible scaling in the late game (just like every OKW unit). Don't make them a second Pak40.

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I don't feel that 1 scout car is so bad, but 2-4 is where i think the OKW seem to struggle. even if you pick off 1 or even 2 they can still force a retreat kill the raketen and bleed the hell out of you

M3s are only useful for quite a short time vs OKW, since you can get a Puma pretty damn fast. And before that, just get schreks asap, and keep your units (especially sturm pio + kubel) together. T1 is not that hard to counter.

Also, buffing the raketen just for the sake of gaining an advantage against Soviet T1 would be bad balancing. OKW already has a shitload of AT, no need to make that even stronger.

Yeah I could see some small buffs to this unit to help with light vehicles. Anything that makes it less punishing to the user without directly buffing its DPS is fine with me. So I agree with all of hon3ynuts' suggested changes as potential solutions.

Never seen somebody uses multiple Scoutcars against me. In 1v1 at least.

Reketen needs a faster fire and set up time.
Besides that its fine.

it gets increase range when in buildings. it can retreat. and is the only ATG that come at tier 1, free of tech

Yeah the Raketen needs a faster set up time, got absolutely destroyed by multiple USF WC51 car rush in the beta in 1v1. In fact I think it was against Hon3ynuts, wasn't it Hon3ynuts? Multiple scout car opening for either faction is strong against OKW, especially WC51 into Stuart, that was such an ass wuppin.

Yeah the Raketen needs a faster set up time, got absolutely destroyed by multiple USF WC51 car rush in the beta in 1v1. In fact I think it was against Hon3ynuts, wasn't it Hon3ynuts? Multiple scout car opening for either faction is strong against OKW, especially WC51 into Stuart, that was such an ass wuppin.

If you're facing multiple vehicles, you should have multiple AT, don't expect a single AT source to handle everything.

Combine, either with shreck/2nd werfer or with mines to protect flanks/frontal rush.
Also, WC51 is pretty huge investment given you are getting a weaker version of soviet M3 and need to pay 25% more, rifles being more expensive then volks also guarantees that you will always outnumber USF player as both, wehr and okw and the doctrine doesn't really have anything else going for it.

luvnest is right about kubel+sturmpio vs m3 but the sturmpio's purpose surely isnt to destroy light vehicles is it? They are supposed to be infantry used close range to destroy allied infantry. Whenever I notice a Soviet T1 Start I immediately get another sturmpio and a kubel then transition into volks. I never get a raketenwerfer cause its the most unreliable AT gun in the game.

Yeah the Raketen needs a faster set up time, got absolutely destroyed by multiple USF WC51 car rush in the beta in 1v1. In fact I think it was against Hon3ynuts, wasn't it Hon3ynuts? Multiple scout car opening for either faction is strong against OKW, especially WC51 into Stuart, that was such an ass wuppin.

depends alot on the player

as soviet i love T1 opening with scoutcar

against some players/ one some maps / etc it works wonders
against other okw players /other maps it is bad

its strenght is mobility its weakness is kubel + sturmpio at long range
why? sturmpio can repair while the kubel shoots and it has similar dps than M3 at far

M3 can't be healed by engineers due to suppression

but i shouldn't tell you what works

The problem is the time it takes to fire the first shot and with a good opponent, it won't even manage to fire the shot. So that's why it's too unreliable and you are just better with SP + Kubel against a singular one. If he overcommits with more, you can always go Puma

Raketenwerfer are not suited to fight light vehicles, the aim time is too high.
Panzerschreck also doesn't work against a skilled opponent. Your squad is pushed by the m3 making it unable to fire. While being flamer engi wiped.

For me works now the following: spend the first munitions on mines and bait scout cars with kübelwagen.

@katitof

Show me how you win a game if you build 2-3 Raketenwerfers as your first units.

honestly i think just a faster aim time is whats needed. its frustrating to have your raketen set up with the vehicle in the arc, and wait a long time for it to aim and during that time the vehicle leave the arc. any other AT gun wouldve been able to get a shot off.

Given the relative size of a raketenwerfer to other AT guns it would make a lot of sense if it were simply much more responsive. I'd consider it the maxim of the AT world then. It has a limited arc and is very easily decrewed, justifying its immediate availability, but it should ideally respond very well to micro.

As it stands, panzerschreks and pumas are the only realistic AT meta, but both are time-consuming to obtain. (I had never really considered mines before, due to the pressing need to save up for schreks).

@katitof

Show me how you win a game if you build 2-3 Raketenwerfers as your first units.

I've said you need more then 1 AT source(even pointed you out which ones exist at that time period) for multiple light vehicles, not that you need to spam rocketens.

Given the relative size of a raketenwerfer to other AT guns it would make a lot of sense if it were simply much more responsive. I'd consider it the maxim of the AT world then. It has a limited arc and is very easily decrewed, justifying its immediate availability, but it should ideally respond very well to micro.

As it stands, panzerschreks and pumas are the only realistic AT meta, but both are time-consuming to obtain. (I had never really considered mines before, due to the pressing need to save up for schreks).

My sentiments exactly. Also, if the raketen was a little more reliable OKW players would potentially be less reliant on shrecks and would further open up potential options for the faction such as more nades, mines, or other upgrades. The game always feels more fun and rewarding with options, and ATM the shreck is so much of a crutch it feels like a boring, necessary munitions burden.

Reketen needs a faster fire and set up time.
Besides that its fine.

This.

Just reduce aiming time so it starts shooting quicker and do something about the thing shooting at all kinds of obstacles, that will improve reliability.

Agree with Gokkel, reduce its aim time as it really struggles with moving units (and it suffers from being in a garrison like MG42/34), and do something about it hitting the ground/obstacles 50% of its shots.

Give it slight more base accuracy and lower base aim time, reduce what it gets in Vet to those 2 stats. Easy fix?