Forget the pershing, Jumbo 76 is where it's at

Personally I'd say 180 Rear, 380 Front, 800 Health, +160HP at Vet 3.


The Sherman appears in the game 3 times:
M4A3 75mm US Army
M4A3E8 US Army
M4A2 76mm USSR

The T-34 chassis appears 3 times, are you sick of it too?
T-34/76
T-34/85
SU-85

What about the KV series? The KV-1, KV-2, and KV-8, also appearing 3 times, yet KV-85's are a frequently requested unit.

Or maybe you're sick of the Panzer IV, which appears 8 times:
Panzer IV Ausf. G
Panzer IV Ausf. F1
Sturmpanzer IV
Flakpanzer IV
Panzer IV Ausf. H
Panzer IV/70 (Jagdpanzer IV)


This would also be neat, a British Relief Commander that dispatches British troops (5 men, performance between Volksgrenadier and Grenadier, Bren upgrade?), Daimler or Humbler Armoured Cars, and finally either a Comet tank, Sherman Firefly, or M10 Achilles.

You said it exactly right (and with the jumbo how i had it in mind)

The Sherman appears in the game 3 times:
M4A3 75mm US Army
M4A3E8 US Army
M4A2 76mm USSR

You forgot (since we're going with chassis here):

M10
M36
Priest
Bulldozer

So as far as the USF goes, their tanks are either Shermans or Stuarts (Stuart and Scott)

guys guys there probably wont be a pershing but there will be other units available in DLCs you can buy or get in war spoils

I'm not sure the M10 an M36 are on the same chassis as the sherman... but that could be me...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman_variants

"Variants without the M4 designation but built on the M4 medium chassis (While some began on the M3 chassis, some subvariants were switched to the M4 chassis during production. These are the models listed here):

105mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M7B1 - self-propelled 105 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage (HMC) based on the M4A3 Sherman chassis.
155mm Gun Motor Carriage M12 - self-propelled 155 mm Gun Motor Carriage (GMC).
Cargo Carrier M30 - Cargo Carrier (an M12 with crew and ammunition space in lieu of the gun).
155mm Gun Motor Carriage M40 - self-propelled 155 mm GMC (Either M1A1 or M2 gun) based on the M4A3 (HVSS) chassis.
8in Howitzer Motor Carriage M43 - self-propelled 8 inch HMC (standardized post-World War II).
3in Gun Motor Carriage M10 - tank destroyer based on the M4A2 Sherman chassis.
3in Gun Motor Carriage M10A1 - Same as the M10, but based on the M4A3 Sherman chassis.
90mm Gun Motor Carriage M36 - tank destroyer based on M10A1 hull (M4A3 chassis); standard model.
90mm Gun Motor Carriage M36B1 - tank destroyer based on M4A3 Sherman hull and chassis; expedient model.
90mm Gun Motor Carriage M36B2 - tank destroyer based on M10 hull (M4A2 chassis, diesel); expedient model."

You forgot (since we're going with chassis here):

M10
M36
Priest
Bulldozer

So as far as the USF goes, their tanks are either Shermans or Stuarts (Stuart and Scott)

Admittedly I did forget the Bulldozer. The M10, M36, and Priest I intentionally left out because they don't look like the Sherman, even though they are based on it's chassis.

I sure would like a firefly

I would like to see hellcat

but another sherman variant is LAZY

but another sherman variant is LAZY

Ill tell the US military to stop improvising successful tanks to perform odd necessary functions in desperate times of warfare.

but another sherman variant is LAZY

It's not lazy because it requires a new model be built for it with new textures.

its lazy and boring.

y not add m18 hellcat

or chaffe light tank?

its lazy and boring.

y not add m18 hellcat

or chaffe light tank?

It's not lazy or boring. What's lazy and boring to me is copy+pasting the IS-2 to USF. If they're going to model a new vehicle, they might as well make a Jumbo Sherman. Jumbos were proportionately larger and had weld marks on the hull and a clay-like appearance on the turret, so they wouldn't be able to use the current Sherman model or textures. Stat-wise a Jumbo would be similar to a KV-1 but beefier, as opposed to identical to an IS-2, where there's no real difference other than skin.

Pictured, glorious Jumbo:




Plus, nobody is saying you can't have Hellcats, we're just saying we want Jumbos. Hellcats can be added as well, it's not like we have to choose one or the other.

The Sherman appears in the game 3 times:
M4A3 75mm US Army
M4A3E8 US Army
M4A2 76mm USSR

The T-34 chassis appears 3 times, are you sick of it too?
T-34/76
T-34/85
SU-85

What about the KV series? The KV-1, KV-2, and KV-8, also appearing 3 times, yet KV-85's are a frequently requested unit.

Or maybe you're sick of the Panzer IV, which appears 8 times:
Panzer IV Ausf. G
Panzer IV Ausf. F1
Sturmpanzer IV
Flakpanzer IV
Panzer IV Ausf. H
Panzer IV/70 (Jagdpanzer IV)

What you wrote is just stupid...
How can you think of these tanks as similar ones?
T34/76,86 - SU85? Complety different role.
Pz IV G/F/H - Sturmpanzer, Flakpanzer, Jadgpanzer? The same as above.
KV-1, KV-2, KV-8 - same as above.

What OST can do for middle/late game?
Pz IV/Stug spam, Panthers, Tigers, Elephants.
What OKW can do?
Pumas, Jadgpanzers, Panthers, King Tiger, Jadgtiger.
What Soviets can do?
T34/76 spam, SU85, KV-2, IS-2, ISU-152 or Sherman.

What's the common thing? Nothing. Every single way is different than the rest.
What about US?
Shermans Spam, Jacksons spam, E8 spam, Bulldozer.
And what's is the difference between Shermans? Nothing. Better armor or a gun (which still is not late-game gun).
Making another Sherman instead of something really new like Hellcat or Pershing is just boring and it gives you another late-game useless unit.
All you can do is go for Shermans and Jacksons or straight for Jacksons.
Jumbo will be no different than E8. Just better armor and maybe worse gun, depends what version.
I don't see any reason to choose Jumbo rather than E8 or stock Sherman since this one can be deployed around 4 CP while Jumbo will be 8-10CP.


By the way, German army was army of PzIII, PzIV and Stugs but I see more often Panther and Tigers than Stugs and even than PzIV (oh wait, there is no PzIII in CoH2. Weird...)

The USF would be much better served by the Jumbo76 than the Pershing and it would make more sense historically and gameplay wise.

1. The Americans are a SHERMAN army. The M4A3 is the base tank. The Jackson and Wolverine use the Sherman Chassis. The 105 and E8 are Shermans. The whole advantage of the Sherman and the American army in tanks was this standardization. Everything is a Sherman on some level and that greatly greatly simplified logistics. It doesn't matter if 2 armored divisions facing off both have 200 tanks. What matters is how many of those 200 tanks show up to battle and how well they can repair damaged tanks after the battle. American tanks had this huge advantage with rigid standardization.

I don't know if you're trying to argue on the realism/ gameplay side. This point doesn't help either though. That the M36 and M10 were derivatives somehow reinforces the "they're all Shermans" argument is nonsense. You might as well say the Soviets were a T-34 army. They weren't in real life, and not the case in the game either. That they greatly simplified logistics is also an exaggeration: there were more differing variants of Shermans than there were different vehicles in the US Army in Europe, and many of them with their 75mm guns were thrown to the rear lines when it was made apparent they sucked hard against German armour. There was considerable problems trying to find new ways to use these tank variants that they spend a lot of time finding upgrades that brought new turrets and new guns. The single chassis allowed for some simplicity, but also greatly reduced the adaptability of the Americans. The "All Sherman" army concept is just plain false, it was not a doctrine but a reality they had to live with.

2. The Pershing is a mediocre run of the mill heavy tank. The 90 was between a tiger and panther gun. Armor? About equal to a panther. Mobility? About equal to a tiger. This thing is generic. The Jumbo's 76mm gun was good enough to fight a tiger but it was loaded full of armor. Panther couldn't get close. It had 102mm of armor sloped at 47 degrees from the vertical, giving it between 150 and 180mm effectively. That means it can stop Panzershreks sometimes. It was made to take a TON of hits and survive.

Before we can discuss the merits of each unit, we need to cone to a consensus of just what functions these units should perform. Most see the Pershing as the equivalent to the Tiger in characteristics and role; depending on which version of the Jumbo you want, that role and function is debatable.

In short, it has advantages and disadvantages that make it complimentary the USF tank force, while the Pershing would be a run of the mill heavy tank stuck in there "becuz 'murrika needs heavy". It will require micro and positioning to be effective and will offer the USF a badly needed tank for pushing, while still being effective in a tank fight with the 76mm gun.

I find it amusing you're writing as if you made a compare and contrast between the two units, when in reality you just described vague benefits of one.

Anyways I agree with the sentiment that both can be presented in the game in different commanders. I'd say a Jumbo should start off with the m3 75mm gun but can be individually upgraded to the m1 or m1a2 76mm gun (the latter portrayed on the Easy Eight). It should be noted though that the original historical purpose of the Jumbo was that it sucked against contemporary anti tank weapons, especially from tanks, and should be depicted as such: infantry engaging a Jumbo should be tantamount to infantry engaging Tiger- tough nut to crack.
As far as I am concerned the Pershing would be the USF of the IS-2, a good balance of armour firepower and mobility at the cost of late game access and expense.

You forgot (since we're going with chassis here):

M10
M36
Priest
Bulldozer

So as far as the USF goes, their tanks are either Shermans or Stuarts (Stuart and Scott)

That's the whole point. It's a giant Sherman army so if it's gonna have a heavy tank, it makes most sense to have it be a bloody Sherman

i want m18 hellcat. it will fit well into USF design. It should be

almost as fast as puma

has the same gun as EZ8 so its penetration would be excellent

Should get a .50cal upgrade option

should deal about half the damage as m36 with 50 range instead

should cost 80-90 fuel and 280-320mp

also should get the same vet bonuses as m10

i want m18 hellcat. it will fit well into USF design. It should be

almost as fast as puma

has the same gun as EZ8 so its penetration would be excellent

Should get a .50cal upgrade option

should deal about half the damage as m36 with 50 range instead

should cost 80-90 fuel and 280-320mp

also should get the same vet bonuses as m10

what would be the difference to a m10

i want m18 hellcat. it will fit well into USF design. It should be

almost as fast as puma

has the same gun as EZ8 so its penetration would be excellent

Should get a .50cal upgrade option

should deal about half the damage as m36 with 50 range instead

should cost 80-90 fuel and 280-320mp

also should get the same vet bonuses as m10

no coh1 copypasta pls. I don't see how a new tank that hasn't been in either game yet is more "lazy and boring" than taking another unit straight from coh1 and putting it in coh2. Also, coh2 already has 2 USF tank destroyers and they both preform well for their costs.

Jumbo sherman would provide the heavy tank roll desperately needed by USF to be able to go toe-to-toe with Pak40s, P4s, Shrecks, etc (in terms of survivability) but would still be vulnerable to heavier Axis AT like Panthers, Tiger, Jagdtiger, etc

It'd be cool if it had 2 forward facing .30cals, so that way it would have decent AI power when facing front, and the 76mm gun would protect it from medium armor, and heavies at close range.

no coh1 copypasta pls. I don't see how a new tank that hasn't been in either game yet is more "lazy and boring" than taking another unit straight from coh1 and putting it in coh2. Also, coh2 already has 2 USF tank destroyers and they both preform well for their costs.

Jumbo sherman would provide the heavy tank roll desperately needed by USF to be able to go toe-to-toe with Pak40s, P4s, Shrecks, etc (in terms of survivability) but would still be vulnerable to heavier Axis AT like Panthers, Tiger, Jagdtiger, etc

It'd be cool if it had 2 forward facing .30cals, so that way it would have decent AI power when facing front, and the 76mm gun would protect it from medium armor, and heavies at close range.

many vehicles in coh2 were also in vcoh.
u don't want copy an paste yet u want another Sherman?

many vehicles in coh2 were also in vcoh.

Yes and with the exception of the basic medium tanks (M4A3 Sherman, P4, Panther) I'm rather disappointed about that, but there is also plenty of new vehicles which is good.

u don't want copy an paste yet u want another Sherman?

Yes because it happens to be one of the most unique Sherman variants ever made, and it's difference is very noticeable in size, as well as the role it will provide to the USF. I'll once again reiterate that I find that much more appealing than bringing another CoH1 unit to provide a roll that's already fulfilled.