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Gameplay and the Arty-Party

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ApeMen
18 Apr 2013, 20:43 PM
#1
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Posts: 65

hey guys,

i cant help myself but i think the gameplay is not something i would call good :(
there is way too much arty (at least on soviet side) that you dont even need any kind of additional arty via commander

maybe its not the ultimate issue in 1v1
but at least in 2v2 its less about skill and more about who spams first and most arty units

it feels like a kind of brits on steroids :(

i dont get why relic think this could improve the gameplay?
but dunno if im alone with this feelings...

i have imo no problem with one arty unit for each side
but right now its a mess :(


what do you think about it?
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WiFiDi
18 Apr 2013, 20:50 PM
#2
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i think the arty ability should be a vet 1 ability. would be a good vet 1 ability i think this way all at and su76 couldn't go arty on us. maybe keep the su76 arty as its kinda important to the unit as a whole.

on the oher hand the 60 munis and the fact that i can't get the arty to hit the enemy when i shoot at it. kinda makes them alot less useful.
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Tommy
18 Apr 2013, 20:51 PM
#3
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Yeah it's horribly artillery centric right now. It's too early to say 'who has the stronger artillery' but it's really irrelevant- every other unit has some alternative artillery ability it seems. That plus tracers plus blizzards is a recipe for chaos.

Although maybe that's intentional.

I hope not.
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TychoCelchuuu
18 Apr 2013, 20:56 PM
#4
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2013, 20:50 PMWiFiDi


I don't have anything much to add except

1) I agree that artillery is silly right now - CoH 1 levels would be better.
2) That gif is amazing.

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ApeMen
18 Apr 2013, 20:58 PM
#5
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Posts: 65

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2013, 20:51 PMTommy
Yeah it's horribly artillery centric right now. It's too early to say 'who has the stronger artillery' but it's really irrelevant- every other unit has some alternative artillery ability it seems. That plus tracers plus blizzards is a recipe for chaos.

Although maybe that's intentional.

I hope not.


yeah i full agree
i definetly hope they will change it

its imo too much

also the blizzard thingy is pretty stupid because it starts like every 5min Oo
and transfers every map into a kind of scheldt

i can understand that relic wants too keep the system
its new and they put probably a lot of work into this system

but its obviously fail^^

i would never expect that they will remove it but i realy hope that relic will listen to us about possible ways to make it at least more playable

why they dont limit it to max 2 times in a game?
i would still dont like it but this would already improve the gameplay


but im drifting^^

the topic is arty so we shout stay at this topic :P
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AmiPolizeiFunk
18 Apr 2013, 21:00 PM
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I've never liked how arty can dominate a game, coh1 or coh2. Hopefully they will tone it down.
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Qvazar
18 Apr 2013, 21:56 PM
#7
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I've not really felt that there was too much arty yet, maybe because I'd become used to all the brit arty and callies in 2v2s.. :ph34r:
At the moment I feel that all the arty is a lot lighter than that.
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IpKaiFung
18 Apr 2013, 22:01 PM
#8
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I haven't had too many issues with on map arty as It's pretty easy to kill.

Off map arty doesn't seem as obnoxious as the off maps that you got in vCoH.
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cr4wler
18 Apr 2013, 22:44 PM
#9
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Posts: 1164

the strength of the arty units is not the issue imho. if a unit dishes out too much damage, nerf hammer it... the problem is that each faction does have an abundance of artillery weaponry even without doctrinal units/abilities. THAT needs to go imho.
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CrackBarbie
18 Apr 2013, 23:00 PM
#10
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My biggest concern is that each arty piece doesn't have a clearly defined role. In vcoh each arty unit had a specific purpose and felt very well-thought out. Ie. Nebels had longer range, better suppression values, but did less damage and weren't as mobile as stukas. This sort of design philosophy is largely missing in coh2.
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pathfindergold
19 Apr 2013, 00:33 AM
#11
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I believe the ability for an AT gun to suddenly turn into a short range light artillery piece doesn't make sense. The Soviets have the SU76 (a mobile AT tank that has an artillery ability) and the 76mm ATG (an ATG that has an artillery ability). I think if anything maybe (MAYBE) the SU76 should only have this ability, and only because it's a higher tier unit.

An ATG should only be built because the player knows or suspects his opponent has armor. With the artillery ability, it's kind of like "oops, I built this ATG when I incorrectly assumed my opponent went for a vehicle rush, now let me use my surplus of munitions to make up for my teching mistake."
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DanielD
19 Apr 2013, 01:36 AM
#12
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Disagree, it's just like in CoH 1: if you over invest in indirect fire you are going to lose to main-line combat troops. Undecided on the rus atgun barrage.
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CombatMuffin
19 Apr 2013, 01:43 AM
#13
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2013, 23:00 PMCrackBarbie
My biggest concern is that each arty piece doesn't have a clearly defined role. In vcoh each arty unit had a specific purpose and felt very well-thought out. Ie. Nebels had longer range, better suppression values, but did less damage and weren't as mobile as stukas. This sort of design philosophy is largely missing in coh2.


Except, of course, the Nebel was so underused in vCoH that you could hardly call it a unit at all... Wait a second... nobody used Walking Stukas, either.

It was only after OF rolled in, that they truly played a role in the game.

Guys, they are fixing stuff and balancing it out, but in waves. Mortars, Blizzards and tanks had a much higher priority. When artillery becomes too dominant an issue, they will go and fix it.

IMHO, artillery should be powerful, but very limited.

Calliopes. Not even once.
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AmiPolizeiFunk
19 Apr 2013, 05:31 AM
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I would be happy if both the soviet AT-gun, and moreso the SU-76, had a small munitions cost to their barrage abilities. The SU-76 in the hands of a good player can be almost impossible to counter when it first hits the field. The barrages from that thing can absolutely wreck infantry, and soviets can just sit back and spam the ability.
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StephennJF
19 Apr 2013, 05:45 AM
#15
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I am not finding arty that big of an issue in the 1v1 games I've played. There are more sources of arty incomparison to CoH1, but they all seem to be a hell of a less effective incomparsion to CoH1.

I think map design might be a part of the factor aswell in 1v1. Can't speak much of 2v2 because your always going to have more flexibility and allow for more arty, but on the snow 1v1 map it does make holes in your mainline which you can't afford sometimes in a competative game. That Scheldt map doesn't count.

I do agree though the SU-76 should have a slight munition cost or a longer cool down.

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CyberianK
19 Apr 2013, 08:29 AM
#16
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I usually don't mind the light artillery barrages because usually it does not instakill your squads/vehicles and you still have time to retreat.
Plus stuff like Paks/AT-guns can be easily killed by good flanking tactics. And the SU-76 is also not a very durable vehicle. In the hands of a skilled player though who can really protect those they are maybe a bit too easily spammable. So put a light MUN cost on both and it will be fine.

Bigger problems I had was with Off-Map though. I like to do lots of mobile Victory Point grabbing and when I am successful in late game I keep getting Offmaps by multiple players at once.
Especially the airstrikes are deadly if your targeted with 2+ and light arty barrages on top. And some of those Arty in your retreat zone so that isn't an option neither.

Plus AA does not seem to work. One time I had 2 Flak Tanks and some Panzergrennies take a VP. Still they got obliterated by Airstrikes.
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BartonPL
19 Apr 2013, 09:10 AM
#17
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artillery really suck this game - katiusza/maultier deals shit damage, sometimes to infantry when hit near squad, only howitzers looks only good arty in this game
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ApeMen
19 Apr 2013, 09:15 AM
#18
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Posts: 65

i would be realy happy if relic would move katyusha and panzerwerfer into one of the commander trees

non commander arty/indirect fire would be perfect to use only mortars
im also fine that the su76 can use its arty ability (but for sure if should costs mun and have a bit longer cooldown)

and remove the arty ability of soviet atgun
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Purlictor
19 Apr 2013, 09:36 AM
#19
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Apr 2013, 09:10 AMBartonPL
artillery really suck this game - katiusza/maultier deals shit damage, sometimes to infantry when hit near squad, only howitzers looks only good arty in this game


I have to agree. The only other noteworthy unit is the SU-76, which is useless for anything but the arty barrage and crushing infantry.

The russian field gun's barrage is 60muni, which is a considerable investment early on. Taking into account it does so little damage to real axis tanks, I think it's fine.

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Calneon
19 Apr 2013, 10:07 AM
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Haven't had an issue with arty in 1v1 in CoH2 yet. If your enemy gets a lot of indirect fire units just rush them. Can't speak about 2v2+ though.
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