So.... about those Heavy tanks.

Old complaint I know but it is an issue that apparently still haven't been resolved. Let's try to talk about this more constructively with a well designed poll

Still any game from 2v2 and up only devolves into long range tank combat spam, which the US couldn't participate, poor US. These kind of tanks frequently dominate the field and I don't know how to dominate these tanks without a super range tank of my own, when they are protected by a wall of AT.

I see the same thing every time the games I play. Tiger tanks tries to kill ISU, Tiger tank gets pounded.

I frequently see an ISU152 just moving up all by it's lonesome and when pursued by a Tiger or any other panzer the ISU152 backs up as fast as a panzer advances leaving them to be only hitting the high frontal armor while it get's away.

ISU snipes and wipes infantry, JadgTiger comes in and pushes it off and dominates any other kind of armor. Repair, Repair, try again.

Sometimes allies executes a full scale attack and kills a Jadgtiger at the cost of some allied tanks. Which the Axis player just try to hold on till they get another Jadgtiger

It's like the whole game is dominated by only 3 tanks.

I personally think the tanks should only be able to attack at long range with a hull down. This mean at short range the tanks will still able to respond but at a slower rate so they can be dominated by smaller tanks.

I made this suggestion before in other forums but didn't get any replies ( have I been largely ignored?)

JadgTiger should be somewhat like the Axis halftrack. It has a long set up time but is able to get away faster than it's able to set up. (This is because of the Allied bombing strike which is really effective against static targets) I think it should also has splash damage to perform better against infantry so it won't be completely useless, and you can only call in one jadgtiger in a game like the Tiger Ace because of the extreme rarity of the jadgtiger during the war.

The ISU152 in comparison should have both a set up time and escape time. (The Stuka airstrike doesn't do as much damage as the Il2 anyways) Also means tanks would be able to take out an overextended unprotected ISU152.

After all these tanks do have a long set up time or an extremely long fire rate in real life.

In the wiki (Yes, I had to look at the wiki, not much good information is found about such a rare specimen) "The massive gun had to be locked down, otherwise mounting brackets would have worn too much for accurate firing. Also a crew member had to exit the vehicle in combat and unlock the gun before firing.[6] However, he also recorded that a 128 mm projectile went through all the walls of a house and destroyed an American tank behind it."



Will these changes make these super long range useless?

It depends on the set up times, but would you rather have the game dominated by these only three tanks or have some actual diverse gameplay?

these units are too strong but I don't think I like any of these suggested fixes. I'm not really sure what the best solution is, it's a hard problem to solve.

Except maybe the elephant. It's probably fine.

I feel the problem lies with the game modes itself IMO. Throttle income so that the big team games can't devolve into 'who can throw more Super Heavy Armageddon Wunderwaffen at the wall'.

These should be limited to 1 per match, not necessarily by a 'hard cap', but by the fact that they should be so expensive that you can't realistically afford more than one.

Elefant: mostly ok right now, it's a doctrinal AT specialist that is very unmaneuverable so while it is potentially very strong when you can't flankit has clear weaknesses already

ISU152: lots of different ways to go about fixing it, personally would enforce a small setup time so it can't immediately fire after moving, and would give it a HE/AP switch like Sherman where the current HE rounds have fairly bad penetration while the AP rounds have a radius similar to Jagdtiger

Jagdtiger: should not shoot through obstacles, that should be limited purely to the immobile pak43 for free, can be munition ability like on ISU (even a timed one, but price has to be fairly high).

Oh, I meant to mention, would anyone else be happy if they just reverted the ISU-152 to the way it was before they upped it's AT power? I feel it was in a better place before where it had some AT Capability but was more focused on AI and you needed to support it better for AT.

I'll always make a campaign for a "1 per game solution" - hardcap, that is.

Where is the KingTiger, IS2, and Tiger on this Poll? The KingTiger is basically a super heavy as well. It would be nice if the poll was more inclusive.


Anyways, I think most of the heavies are fine, and they only need minor suggestions.

ISU - increase scatter perhaps, but I still think it can be countered since its fairly fragile

Elefant - rarely see this unit, but perhaps it suffers from "im not going to use this unit because everyone says it sucks!" syndrome.


Jagdtiger - just change it so it can't shoot through obstacles


You didn't put this on the poll, but I feel the best way to change them is to add more counters. Right now some tanks lack reliable counters like the Jgdtiger and KT. Their heavy armor makes it easy to brute force your way through opponents.

Where is the KingTiger, IS2, and Tiger on this Poll? The KingTiger is basically a super heavy as well. It would be nice if the poll was more inclusive.

Well my main concern with the game are the long range tanks. They not only able to massive damage at long range out of reach of other units but they also have a lot of health and armor so when they are assaulted it will still take a lot to take them out. You have a better chance of losing your tanks then taking out the enemy, meanwhile the enemy is taking your stuff out from a safe place.

At least with KT and IS2s you have to move forward into the danger zone in order to do damage so I don't have much gripes with those.

I do like the setup idea, a minimum range could be good too.

i like them. my only fix would be to disable JT's ability to fire through buildings

I think the elefant is fine atm. The ISU should toggle AP rounds and HE rounds like the sherman. The jagdtiger shouldn't be able to shoot through everything.

The Elefant is in a perfect spot at the moment.

Well my main concern with the game are the long range tanks. They not only able to massive damage at long range out of reach of other units but they also have a lot of health and armor so when they are assaulted it will still take a lot to take them out. You have a better chance of losing your tanks then taking out the enemy, meanwhile the enemy is taking your stuff out from a safe place.

At least with KT and IS2s you have to move forward into the danger zone in order to do damage so I don't have much gripes with those.

Okay I understand your point. The title was misleading and I think the poll would've been more well constructed if it included all the heavies (even though I understand some of them are not problematic at all).

I still think KT is very problematic and should be included. The Jgdtiger and KT I can see being balanced if there were more effective counters to them. The units themselves are okay but look at the KT and jagdtigers opponents, they are mostly Allied mediums which lack any heavy armor. Anything heavier is locked behind specific commanders. These Axis heavies also have better support in forms of powerful Pak guns and Obersoldaten, Grens, etc.


Okay so what I am saying is, I think these heavies are fine, but in terms of matchups and support, there are heavy tanks (mostly KT and Jgdt) that are problematic. If we get reliable and effective counters for these units, the amount of frustration will go down dramatically

The problem with heavy tanks in general KT, Tiger and IS2 included (less so the IS2, to be fair), is that they don't have any real counters, or drawbacks.

Once they become unlocked, there is very rarely (if ever) a situation where getting one is not the right decision. They are simply better than your other units, which effectively reduces your range of choice.

Allow me to quote the balance master himself, :

If a certain set of decisions are the BEST decisions then there are in fact no decisions. Make it difficult for me to determine what course is the best course and you stimulate my mind.

New units should enable the player to play differently. They should open up new options. But they should never replace the usefulness of other units!

Limiting the availability of these tanks to 1, doesn't erase the underlying bad design.

Decrease the range from 70 to 50.

Isn't 50 a tad short? That's only 10 more than a normal Tank, and it's actually 10 shorter than the JP4/SU-85/M36.

Where is the KingTiger, IS2, and Tiger on this Poll? The KingTiger is basically a super heavy as well. It would be nice if the poll was more inclusive.


Anyways, I think most of the heavies are fine, and they only need minor suggestions.

ISU - increase scatter perhaps, but I still think it can be countered since its fairly fragile

Elefant - rarely see this unit, but perhaps it suffers from "im not going to use this unit because everyone says it sucks!" syndrome.


Jagdtiger - just change it so it can't shoot through obstacles


You didn't put this on the poll, but I feel the best way to change them is to add more counters. Right now some tanks lack reliable counters like the Jgdtiger and KT. Their heavy armor makes it easy to brute force your way through opponents.

Elefant definetly sucks. Only usable as Maphack with spotting scopes.
70 range nerf was too much.

If you want to remove Jagdtiger shoot through obstacles ability, give it Spotting scopes, otherwise it will be such an useless unit without a partner with recon run, it will be as extinct as elefant is right now.

Nah I don't think it needs a spotting scope. Doesn't it already have the biggest range for a tank in the game at 85?

Right now there is really no risk in getting the Jagdtiger (coming from a team games perspective, probably the same in 2v2 and 1v1). In open maps it works great with its great range. EVen in urban maps, it can sit back and snipe tanks through buildings. At least it becomes more vulnerable in urban maps when you take away its ability to shoot through obstacles. It becomes more of a strategic weapon with this change and not a "time to cancel all armor!" unit

I don't think there is anything wrong with long range tanks in general. It's just that the ISU and Jagdtiger don't quite have the right stats.

Jagdtiger needs to not be able to automatically shoot through obstacles and ISU needs it's damage or AOE adjusted slightly. That's really it.

Nah I don't think it needs a spotting scope. Doesn't it already have the biggest range for a tank in the game at 85?

And why the hell would you want 85 range if it cant spot for itself and cant shoot through obstacles and ONLY kills tanks?

Well the JP4 can't spot for itself and can't see in any direction except forward, but it still has 60 range. The M10 and M36 can't spot for themselves either.