I Think you are thinking this the wrong way - the soviets should not be punished by resticting them to one call-in or making the call-in unlocked by basebuildings. Instead make the core-units so good that a call-in is made on strategic decision instead of a must.
I Know A comparable idea has been presented to relic by somebody in the alpha(not NDA since the community member came up with the idea) who essentially suggested that if you tech they cost the same but if you don't they will cost like ~20% more resources, making it good to tech in the long run, but not necessary if you really don't want to.
However it is a major issue that call ins are far more beneficial to some factions than others and this is primarily what has prevented relic from addressing them. How can you nerf call ins equally when some factions hardly even use them?
if you tech they cost the same but if you don't they will cost like ~20% more resources, making it good to tech in the long run, but not necessary if you really don't want to.
Yeah maybe that's an idea. Personally I just think it sounds unnecessary complex for no real advantage. Can't see how it add any more depth to gameplay than simply putting tier reqs?
No way to tell if it's really "worth" it without memorizing a table or something. "Hmm, how many IS-2s must I build for it to be economically viable for me to tech?" Not to mention trying to figure out how far away your opponent is to another tiger etc. Basically only the most dug in players will actually have a clue of what they are doing and what to expect.
How can you nerf call ins equally when some factions hardly even use them?
What's the problem? Are factions fundamentally unbalanced with commanders bringing them closer to balance? That is a pretty extreme type of asymmetrical balance. "Hmm, this unit from T4 is over-performing, let's add a commander that has a unit to counter it."
Do you have any insight on how they approach balance? If that's the way we don't have to discuss balance since it will never be achieved. I'm confident PQ would realize what monster of a system that would be to balance.
If I had to try to balance all this, I would probably forget about commanders and make the base units balanced to begin with. If need be I'd make all call-ins completely useless (add one million fuel cost) and focus on balancing tiers first before moving over to "optional" units.
IMO the best solution for the call in problem is to bind call ins to the techings.
Ostheer:
Stug III G - T3
Tiger/Ace - T4
Elefant - T4
Puma - T2
Soviet:
T34/85 - T3 OR T4
IS-2 - T3 OR T4
ISU-152 - T3 OR (AND?!) T4
KW2 - T3 OR T4
KW1 - T3 OR T4
KW8 - T3 OR T4
M4 Sherman - T3 OR T4
M3 with Guards - T1 OR T2
OKW:
Jagdtiger - All 3 Buildings built (like KT)
P4 Ausführung J - Mechanized Company Built
Kommandopanther - Mechanized Company Built
Ostwind - Heal or Ressourcetruck built (Or maybe also Mechanized)
USF:
M10 - Captain or Lieutenant unlocked
M8 - Captain or Lieutenant unlocked
Jeep - No unlocks needed
M4 E8 - Major unlocked
M4 Bulldozer - Major unlocked
Priest - Major unlocked
I probably forgot some units but you get the point.
This would add the fact that players would actually try to tech and test new strategies instead of just waiting for the uber call-ins.
This x10000000.
If balance is severely impacted as a result of this (I see a lot of people worried about soviets) this can also be fixed separately (unrelated to call-ins). But the current call-in meta is retarded and has to change and honestly this is the best way to fix it.
The game is supposed to be complex and require us to make meaningful choices in a dynamic enviroment. Something being an obvoius choice is a fundemental problem in the design of the game and needs to be fixed. The suggested change is just one way to make call ins less obvious
Additionally Making the decision to tech has more implications than just how much it will cost, you also have to factor in the timing of those units, and how much those units will benefit you at the different points in time you can attain them.
The design of the soviets was meant to use commanders to supplement their core units, t3/4 are only so expensive because they want you to use commanders and not an additional tier building to supplement and diversify your army. You don't need commanders to counter things, but you may need them to make a good army.
I do have some insight -> http://pqumsieh.com/ , its a very complex process to balance this game, but thats probably the reason I like Coh2 more than checkers complexity makes the game more interesting and fun to play
Ideally there should be no calls and commanders should impact the usage of assets on the field. DoW2 did this in some respects with commanders bring abilities to the field which supported or were supported by assets, very few call ins.
Commanders should bring both advantages and disadvantages to your select approach. An example would be an armoured commander which improve armour ability but put your infantry at a disadvantage. Players would have to play to their advantage and try limit their disadvantage.
Ideally there should be no calls and commanders should impact the usage of assets on the field. DoW2 did this in some respects with commanders bring abilities to the field which supported or were supported by assets, very few call ins.
Terminators?
Banewolf?(correct name for the IG toxic 'flamer' thing?)
Autarch?
Seer Council?
Rippers?
Commanders should bring both advantages and disadvantages to your select approach. An example would be an armoured commander which improve armour ability but put your infantry at a disadvantage. Players would have to play to their advantage and try limit their disadvantage.
And that is the problem with coh2 commander design.
Some were stuffed with AWESOME and become bloated because of it, most bring disadvantages or gimmicks that can and will backfire if you aren't top player already.
The game is supposed to be complex and require us to make meaningful choices in a dynamic enviroment. Something being an obvoius choice is a fundemental problem in the design of the game and needs to be fixed. The suggested change is just one way to make call ins less obvious.
Yes, that is what we are addressing in this thread.
Additionally Making the decision to tech has more implications than just how much it will cost, you also have to factor in the timing of those units, and how much those units will benefit you at the different points in time you can attain them.
The design of the soviets was meant to use commanders to supplement their core units, t3/4 are only so expensive because they want you to use commanders and not an additional tier building to supplement and diversify your army. You don't need commanders to counter things, but you may need them to make a good army.
Well that's a real shame. Not only will it make balance so much harder to achieve it will take a lot of strategic depth out of the soviet faction. For Call-ins to be viable yet not as attractive they have to make them harder to get (more expensive/CP reqs) and how can you possibly balance that over all the different game modes? Geez, I really feel for PQ.
I do have some insight -> http://pqumsieh.com/ , its a very complex process to balance this game, but thats probably the reason I like Coh2 more than checkers complexity makes the game more interesting and fun to play
I loved CoH1 for that reason! CoH2 is not there yet. The game can be fun, but the one thing that it is not is interesting. And I think that the automatch community would agree.
Terminators?
Banewolf?(correct name for the IG toxic 'flamer' thing?)
Autarch?
Seer Council?
Rippers?
very few call ins.
Out of 18 commanders there very few which brought call ins. Many of those calls you have listed where common to the faction and not to the commander. Terminators, Autarch and Rippers where common the faction thus can be seen as tech. The commanders where apparent from the onset of the game and one could plan accordingly.
CoH often invisible commanders only becoming apparent when calls in or events are shown. Allied players seemly tend to pick much earlier then Axis players placing Axis at slight advantage by been able to select the commander better suited to later field conditions. This mainly has to do with allied infantry call in where the allied player needs to pick early to get an advantage of earlier call in infantry.
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