4v4 is a joke

Just nerf the ISU to deal mostly with infantry again. And Elephant and Jagd can be nerfed to reasonable levels.

Axis needs them for fear allies might go ISU, if you just remove the great AT power of the ISU there won't be any unbalance if the Jagd and elephant goes down a notch. (or 5).

Allies have enough AT without ISU anyhow.

2 posts invised by a staff member. Please keep on track and stay respectful to each other, guys.

Just nerf the ISU to deal mostly with infantry again. And Elephant and Jagd can be nerfed to reasonable levels.

Axis needs them for fear allies might go ISU, if you just remove the great AT power of the ISU there won't be any unbalance if the Jagd and elephant goes down a notch. (or 5).

Allies have enough AT without ISU anyhow.

I'm sorry but what are others AT options as Soviets? IS-2 (only in 1 useful commander) and? You did not mean SU-85, right?

Just nerf the ISU to deal mostly with infantry again. And Elephant and Jagd can be nerfed to reasonable levels.

Axis needs them for fear allies might go ISU, if you just remove the great AT power of the ISU there won't be any unbalance if the Jagd and elephant goes down a notch. (or 5).

Allies have enough AT without ISU anyhow.

They do?

Against heavy german tanks? No other nobrainer. But Zis-3, SU-85, SU-76, T-34/85, IS-2 all work well. Just not on their own. Numbers comrades.

@dek0y, you are right, they don't. But give one bullshit superunit to one-side the other side gets one I guess.

In my opinion they should all go.

I thought super tanks was what CoH2 was all about. lol

OK, so Axis have Elephant, Tiger Ace, Kongistiger, Jadgtiger as superunits. Even further, Elephant and Jadgtiger as super-superunits.

Soviets have ISU-152, IS-2 and maybe, let's say, KV-2.
But ISU is the only super-super unit.

Now USF. No super units. Only this.

Well since it should be concluded three wrongs don't make a right, what makes you think adding a forth wrong in the mix would improve anything?

If they add a new superunit I demand the B-5 280mm, and it should be protected from bombardment.

That glass cannon makes me think of Raketenwerfer lol.

Against heavy german tanks? No other nobrainer. But Zis-3, SU-85, SU-76, T-34/85, IS-2 all work well. Just not on their own. Numbers comrades.

@dek0y, you are right, they don't. But give one bullshit superunit to one-side the other side gets one I guess.

In my opinion they should all go.

Zis-3 su-76 in numbers dont counter axis heavy armor they can easily just get away from the zis or just arty them. su-76 would last about the time it took it to encounter the first axis units and a shrek mob and its dead as well as it wont pen anything they have above p4. su-85 cant pen the front of german superunits so its pretty much useless too slow no turret. everything else you listed they will have multiple panthers and tigers by the time you get them out and most likely the game is already over by then as there pushing your fuel over. 4v4 sucks right now i play a little 1v1 but i like playing big games with teammates. WF was more balanced when it first came out than it is now. Can't sherman spam anymore which was the only thing that let usf maybe take down heavy units with numbers now by the time they are pushing our fuel wed be lucky to have 2 shermans out and not even able to call an e8 in yet wouldnt have the fuel anyways if i built a reg sherman or two. Lets see oh yes the nascar panther that even when it has engine damage can about out run a sherman and blows the sherman away in speed head to head which makes no fuckin sense why does it even get smoke then. 1v1 is ok but id rather play with friends. Playing 4v4 right now is just frustrating its just a game yes but i would like to be able to win as allies when i play a good game right now it just dosen't matter. And why cant the USF have a super unit I dont even know why i ask cause if they do get one it will just be a pos with a sign on its back saying kick me for relic to laugh at us allied players

Against heavy german tanks? No other nobrainer. But Zis-3, SU-85, SU-76, T-34/85, IS-2 all work well. Just not on their own. Numbers comrades.

@dek0y, you are right, they don't. But give one bullshit superunit to one-side the other side gets one I guess.

In my opinion they should all go.

Numbers huh??? Well Schreck mob, gren blob, obersolaten, and KT ont give a fuck and will run over u!

I don't think anyone was saying that German factions weren't stronger in 4v4, and it's silly to say otherwise. They have the heaviest tanks in the game. People are just saying that balancing towards 4v4 would really screw up the balance in 1v1s and 2v2s. Also, the number of 4v4 threads lately is pretty overkill.

There has to be a way to fix it most other games I have played regardless of number of players it was still balanced just different strategies. I payed the same amount of money for this game as the people who play 1v1 did as well as there is a statistical thread on the balance page that suggest the vast majority are 3v3 4v4 players. Seems to me like Relic only cares about the people that make a career of playing this 1v1.

Also, the number of 4v4 threads lately is pretty overkill.

Overkill? Hardly. It is proportional. 4's make up the majority of the games played. Every game played effects 8 customers.

The rules of 1v1 cannot be the same as the rules of a 4v4. :/

Just nerf the ISU to deal mostly with infantry again. And Elephant and Jagd can be nerfed to reasonable levels.

Axis needs them for fear allies might go ISU, if you just remove the great AT power of the ISU there won't be any unbalance if the Jagd and elephant goes down a notch. (or 5).

Allies have enough AT without ISU anyhow.

Did you just mention Su-76? Sorry but i have to say it ruined all the points in your post. Everyone know how bad and overprice it is and to think that Su-76 is a counter (even combine with whatever Soviet Tiers has) to Axis armor clearly show how little you know about the game.

Don't bully the Suchka! A little weak and blows up alot but it does the best it can!
Jokes aside Im not suggesting you 'spam' any type of unit. But a wall of fire coming from several of the earlier stated units will knock out any tank. However often they will just retreat because hey engage warp drive and smoke away. Still they cannot push.
Thats until they snipe your TDs with Jagdlol and Elephant.

Changing the ISU to an AI roll, it can be the basis for a combined armoured force. Knocking out infantry while the other units can be focused more on AT. Im just saying hopefully, this will not have an all too adverse effect on 1v1.
But sure even with that you also might need to bring up the other AT capabilites of the allies to fill that gap. I was hoping however that this gap could be closed by a change to the abilites and attributes of the heavy german TDs.


@NinjaWJ: Agreed. I wrote about that a while back, right now any allied TD force are in danger of being picked apart by blob of shrecks, running up fireing one round and then pulling back again. Demos can guard against that for a while.
Soviet infantry shouldn't be dissmissed outright in such situations, but yes they aren't that effective dmg dealers. Wouldnt however an ISU Anti-inf only ISU convering the main TD force atleast help with that?


@Snipester I think it has been established in this thread a long time ago that we have to find a way to make sure any balance change focused on teamgames doesn't effect 1v1.

People are just saying that balancing towards 4v4 would really screw up the balance in 1v1s and 2v2s.

Not if 3v3/4v4 balancing mechanics are made to be map-related. Let's have 3v3/4v4 maps feature less resources and lower pop cap -- that would have no effect on 1v1s and would improve large team games immensely due to there being drastically less number of instawipe/super long-range units on the field at the same time.

Don't bully the Suchka! A little weak and blows up alot but it does the best it can!
Jokes aside Im not suggesting you 'spam' any type of unit. But a wall of fire coming from several of the earlier stated units will knock out any tank. However often they will just retreat because hey engage warp drive and smoke away. Still they cannot push.
Thats until they snipe your TDs with Jagdlol and Elephant.

Changing the ISU to an AI roll, it can be the basis for a combined armoured force. Knocking out infantry while the other units can be focused more on AT. Im just saying hopefully, this will not have an all too adverse effect on 1v1.
But sure even with that you also might need to bring up the other AT capabilites of the allies to fill that gap. I was hoping however that this gap could be closed by a change to the abilites and attributes of the heavy german TDs.


@NinjaWJ: Agreed. I wrote about that a while back, right now any allied TD force are in danger of being picked apart by blob of shrecks, running up fireing one round and then pulling back again. Demos can guard against that for a while.
Soviet infantry shouldn't be dissmissed outright in such situations, but yes they aren't that effective dmg dealers. Wouldnt however an ISU Anti-inf only ISU convering the main TD force atleast help with that?


@Snipester I think it has been established in this thread a long time ago that we have to find a way to make sure any balance change focused on teamgames doesn't effect 1v1.

I don't know if that will help (referring to changing the ISU to anti-infantry). German armor is still verty strong. SU85 plus Zis really can't cut it when anything above a PZ4 hits the field. Even a straight up tank fight without AT Axis infantry is going to be a loss for Allied vehicles. The ISU152, however OP it is, is the only unit that can keep Soviets viable in the late game (at least in 4v4). If you take out its AT component, Soviets are going to collapse harder than they already do now.

I don't know if that will help (referring to changing the ISU to anti-infantry). German armor is still verty strong. SU85 plus Zis really can't cut it when anything above a PZ4 hits the field. Even a straight up tank fight without AT Axis infantry is going to be a loss for Allied vehicles. The ISU152, however OP it is, is the only unit that can keep Soviets viable in the late game (at least in 4v4). If you take out its AT component, Soviets are going to collapse harder than they already do now.

I completely agree with you WJ, ISU152 is the only thing that keep the Soviet viable in 4vs4.