4v4 is a joke

Just stepped away from 1v1 / 2v2 and mess around in 4v4, all I could say, it is boring, and it is dreadfully broken.

In such team game, players would have massive resource without struggling, fighting for strategic point would be effortless. The specialist nature of OKW making those game mode are axis-autowin. Each OKW players only required to build one kind of hard countering unit and combine into an invincible combined arms. Crippled resources means nothing there because they do not require to get so much different units to be effective.

At 30 secs mark, Kubel own the opponent fuel/muni points while the others can get their own fuel/muni effortless.
Allies may able to push them away, but they can only grab it back at 2 mins mark.

At 5 mins mark, Puma/Panzer II/Ober/Pak40 can hard counter any M3/M20/M18/every Allies infantry.

At 7 mins mark, Stuka ends Soviet T2 defence.

At 10 mins mark, OKW Panther reach the field.

At 13 mins mark, KT stomp everyone, IS2/ISU can never reach the field, because the battle is over.

While the lone Ostheer can spam cache, spam R/medic bunkers/medic crates/fueldrop/vet, Pak, making OKW even more invincible, then roflroll the Allies with Panthers as their sole fighting units.


Allies, are hopeless there. Once they are forced away, it almost takes 3 mins to reinforce and getting back to the frontline, because the map is too damn BIG. Their weaker ATG, armour can do nothing to that fast Stukas/Panthers. Specialist axis units have very good synergy while the generalist Allies are just meh. Such stuff can never achieved in 1v1/2v2.

Allies strength is steamrolling, retreating wasn't a big deal when the map allows them steamrolling and bleed axis manpower like crazy. They just can't do that in such crazy BIG map. Also, the stupid map design making possible assault route are so easily predictable, just one Kubel/MG42, USF is doomed.

If Relic really want to clean up this mess without making OKW worthless in 1v1, they really need to make the stat different in different game mode, maybe making the units more expensive / weaker in larger game mode.

4v4's are fun when u have to good team. yet usually axis side will win

4v4 is a joke, agreed. I like 4v4, just wish it was balanced.

Some of your "timings" are off (exaggerated).

I don't understand why people insist that making the game different for different game modes is a good idea. It would be very jarring for things to be different prices/effectiveness, as the game is already loaded with a variety of units/prices. Secondly, I have yet to see an argument as to WHY it would be needed. We go from:

There is a problem -> there is no other way -> make each game mode different.

It should be:

There is a problem -> whats the issue? -> test some changes -> a million other ideas -> final resort, different numbers for diff game modes.

4v4 is a joke, agreed. I like 4v4, just wish it was balanced.

Some of your "timings" are off (exaggerated).

I don't understand why people insist that making the game different for different game modes is a good idea. It would be very jarring for things to be different prices/effectiveness, as the game is already loaded with a variety of units/prices. Secondly, I have yet to see an argument as to WHY it would be needed. We go from:

There is a problem -> there is no other way -> make each game mode different.

It should be:

There is a problem -> whats the issue? -> test some changes -> a million other ideas -> final resort, different numbers for diff game modes.

Because trying to balance 4v4 mess would ruin 1v1 completely, that's why.

imo the recent patches have improved 4v4 some.. though i still think 3v3 and 4v4s should have like 50% resource income compared to 1v1 and 2v2.

Because trying to balance 4v4 mess would ruin 1v1 completely, that's why.

Still not an argument, it's an assumption you have already deemed to be true.

Issue I see is as following.

1.On a number of maps flanking Jagdlol isn't valid.
1.1 Adding an Elephant and yeah can't flank both at the same time.

2. Stuka Zu-Fuss (anyone know alt+keypad code for dual s?) wipes any AT guns, or they will be shot to shit by Sturmtigers, KT, regular Tiger.

3. Any AT Vehicles in any possible number? See 1. and 1.1.

4. Glorious B-4? Only possible if the enemy team are stupid enough to not bring in any off-map like the Stuka 50kg and recon. Elephant commander for instance.

Fix that won't efff up 1v1? No idea. Maybe stronger AT infantry or AT guns. Or make sure Jagdlol and Eles get a less HP so a trap/push with infantry and AT guns can kill it.

Personally I would:


Ensure that OKW do not get benefit from caches. At the moment OKH can build them and OKW benefit in a way that their faction is not designed to

We have already seen this happen with the Assault Support trucks soon after WFA came out

Implementing this would not affect 1v1 balance at all and make a big difference on 4v4 where OKW don't really have to make hard choices

Just stepped away from 1v1 / 2v2 and mess around in 4v4, all I could say, it is boring, and it is dreadfully broken.

In such team game, players would have massive resource without struggling, fighting for strategic point would be effortless.

I can assure you that strategic points do matter in team games

Early battles, and most the later ones, centre around the fuel points


On steppes for example, if you have the island + mid fuel you are doing far, far better than a team that has the two top stars and the munitions.

Axis in 4v4 => It's just fun!

Allied in 4v4 => Need some challenge.


OK, balance is sucks now. but It's fun enough.

saw vonni and sib owned like noobs also in 2v2 so the problem is okw infantry scaling is so fu OP. Then you wait for KT or JAGKT and GG. Yes 4v4 as axis is GG 99% of the time. You need to be a PRO allies team to beat axis noob player right now.

Axis in 4v4 => It's just fun!

Allied in 4v4 => Need some challenge.


OK, balance is sucks now. but It's fun enough.

Agreed, I still play it like the sucker I am. But it is frustrating.

At current state this game is a joke of nature XD

don't forget okw infantry have 5 vet and in 4v4 it is easy to reach that level. allies infantry stick to vet 3 so.... bullshit XD

lol. another 4v4 thread

And yet they still complain about elephant FailFish

And yet they still complain about elephant FailFish

Not really, just Elephant commander in conjunction with Jagdlol. An elephant on it's own is little problem. Just use M36/Su-85 in junction with a KV-1 and you can take it head on. But add a Jagdlol into the mix and holy fuck. About 5 rounds from Jagdlol and ele and all allied vehicles are burning.

Jagdlol on its own is equally not a problem, artillery anyone? But in teamgames with commanders that spot both recon and stuka? GG.

4v4 A JOKE!?!?!?



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Not really, just Elephant commander in conjunction with Jagdlol. An elephant on it's own is little problem. Just use M36/Su-85 in junction with a KV-1 and you can take it head on. But add a Jagdlol into the mix and holy fuck. About 5 rounds from Jagdlol and ele and all allied vehicles are burning.

Jagdlol on its own is equally not a problem, artillery anyone? But in teamgames with commanders that spot both recon and stuka? GG.

The only way to counter Elephant+Jadgtiger is B-4 but there is Stuka so Allies are still f***ed.

4v4 is a joke, agreed. I like 4v4, just wish it was balanced.
There is a problem -> whats the issue? -> test some changes -> a million other ideas -> final resort, different numbers for diff game modes.

Good news everyone! After 300 iterations, we have finally managed to make 3v3 and 4v4 modes semi-balanced. The 1v1 and 2v2 modes got bashed and nuked a tad during this process, but don't worry, after some additional changes, we are confident global balance can be achieved. Rejoice everyone! For after all, now the most demanded of modes, the modes everyone wanted to become balanced have become a reality. The dream is real.