A quick note for the Coh2 community (redux)

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Here at Relic we work hard to encourage the community and fans of the Company of Heroes series to treat each other with respect and play the game in the spirit of good sportsmanship. We strive to cultivate a fun environment for those playing our games and interacting within our community.

The Company of Heroes community is exceptionally close-knit and it is really important to us to foster a culture of mutual respect and support. Our fans are vital to our success, and the relationship that we are building with you guys is incredibly important to us.

As developers, we hold ourselves to this same high standard. We were recently made aware of a situation that has exposed a failure to meet these standards. It’s important we ensure that all employee interactions also support the values with which we govern our community. We take this matter very seriously and will be investigating this further so that we can avoid something like this happening again.

Thank you for your continued support!

The Relic Community Team

Jeffery ‘Noun’ Simpson and Cynthia_RE

Please feel free to continue, if you wish, with respect for each other.

What happened to the last one?

It got locked down because of Flamewar

Not related to the topic at all, but congratz on the promotion Bloodnok!

did you find the discussion so good, you wanted to continue it?
Funny stuff.

1,161 hrs on record
last played on 10 Sep

Yes Yes keep talking.

just gonna copy and paste what i wrote in the last thread.

PLEASE, stop calling kubel spam 'abuse'. Just because a unit is strong or OP doesnt mean youre not allowed to build them as you please. theyre in the game, and the stats were INTENTIONALLY buffed. people who spam kubels arent abusing anything, if anything they are just spamming. abusing something would be like using the double b4 shot bug, or if you were somehow to cheat and do something that you should not be able to.

yesterday pq mentioned void rays in starcraft2 and how they were incredibly strong early after release, and how blizzard didnt bother patching them until later so that the community can try to find counters. i remember this period quite well, and while it was quite difficult to play against, people actively tried to find ways to beat this. i really hope you guys would try to apply yourself more to the game and try to figure out strategies that would fare better against kubel spam, instead of doing your same strategy and then when it fails coming to whine on the forums.

also, think about jsut nerfs, but think about BUFFS aswell. what in the USFs kit is preventing them from effectively dealing with kubels? is it that bazookas dont have good enough accuracy to hit a small target like a kubel? what about smoke? maybe we should increase bazooka accuracy so that it can effectively counter light vehicles!

Im sure any spam is not Relic's intention how to play the game. So balance developer spamming kubels, jeeps, E8s and abusing game mechanics to troll and making it less fun for people is definetely not how Relic wants the game to be played. And its not making a good image about Relic/balance department.

Ofcourse you can play the game how you want but the biggest problem is Relic employee is involved in here.

if relic really doesnt want spam to exist then they can do what they did with the later DoW expansions and just set a hard cap to certain units. as long as effective units exist, you'll see them in quantity.

im not condoning brads decisions, but i think as a community we need to step back and reasses what the term 'abuse' really means.

Lynx once got trolled in GR chat, calling everyone dicks MVGame

if relic really doesnt want spam to exist then they can do what they did with the later DoW expansions and just set a hard cap to certain units. as long as effective units exist, you'll see them in quantity.

im not condoning brads decisions, but i think as a community we need to step back and reasses what the term 'abuse' really means.

Why bother to make a game with cover system if you're allowed to just spam light vehicles that can stop all kind of infantry in the early game? The early game is about doing your best with the few units you can produce, using cover to make them effective and this game allows that because of the great system cover we have.

It doesn't make any sense to have such a wonderful RTS game broken by the spam of certain units that are way too powerful and don't have any negative effect in your economy at all. You just spend MP in 2-3 Light vehicles that use FUEL to move and see how the Allies player struggle to get our of their base. This is only enjoyable from the AXIS point of view and it shouldn't be possible to spam such a unit without negative effects on your game. I'm not talking about limited number of units produced but an added fuel cost so people who decide to go this route have some penalties for doing it.

The game shoudln't be based on the spam of units, it should reward the use of combined arms and strategy and not a plain strat of spammable units that just need a bit of attention not to die.

The same applies to any sort of spam in the game that allows you to do what we saw in the replays. This kind of gameplay makes the game boring and dull. How is Coh2 ever going to be popular in Esports if this kind of gameplay is rewarded in the game?

Of course good players are going to look for the most effectibe way to win but the game shoudln't provide the player with such unffair ways to take advantage of the game mechanics.

Yeah well people said the same thing about M3 spam.

LemonJuice isn't saying that he wants 3x Kubel to be a strong opener in the game, or that it shouldn't be change,d necessarily. He's just pointing out that although it may reflect poorly on balance, it isn't exactly abuse... I mean, the game DOES normally allow people to build 3 of a unit. Being annoying with a spammed unit isn't the same as drop hacking or using a bug in the map.

honestly im a big fan of unorthodox strategies, since theyre interesting and out of the ordinary. i would like to see kubel openers still be good, but more situational and easier to counter. i would like to see the kubel size be increased so that its much easier to be hit by bazookas and at guns (which should counter them), or that bazooka accuracy is increased (the bazooka being something that needs to be looked at in general)

just gonna copy and paste what i wrote in the last thread.

PLEASE, stop calling kubel spam 'abuse'. Just because a unit is strong or OP doesnt mean youre not allowed to build them as you please. theyre in the game, and the stats were INTENTIONALLY buffed. people who spam kubels arent abusing anything, if anything they are just spamming. abusing something would be like using the double b4 shot bug, or if you were somehow to cheat and do something that you should not be able to.

yesterday pq mentioned void rays in starcraft2 and how they were incredibly strong early after release, and how blizzard didnt bother patching them until later so that the community can try to find counters. i remember this period quite well, and while it was quite difficult to play against, people actively tried to find ways to beat this. i really hope you guys would try to apply yourself more to the game and try to figure out strategies that would fare better against kubel spam, instead of doing your same strategy and then when it fails coming to whine on the forums.

also, think about jsut nerfs, but think about BUFFS aswell. what in the USFs kit is preventing them from effectively dealing with kubels? is it that bazookas dont have good enough accuracy to hit a small target like a kubel? what about smoke? maybe we should increase bazooka accuracy so that it can effectively counter light vehicles!

Sorry, but this is nonsense. If a developer buff's a unit that changes the whole early game, he should at least have a clear idea how it can be countered. He should not just make a drastic change and throw it at customers to sort it out for him and then if it turns out op make some adjustments.

This unit should have been tested in beta and a solid counter(s) should have been found before it was released at its current form. I don't know why it was not tested properly in beta, but it could have something to do with the fact that many testers are not putting much time in beta.

Yeah I love this game and all past Relic RTS games, don't get me wrong, but I sometimes feel like I'm playing an early access game.

Part of that is how much work they put into supporting the game; the other half is how nutty the state of the game can be sometimes. March Deployment, for instance.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. If a developer buff's a unit that changes the whole early game, he should at least have a clear idea how it can be countered. He should not just make a drastic change and throw it at customers to sort it out for him and then if it turns out op make some adjustments.

This unit should have been tested in beta and a solid counter(s) should have been found before it was released at its current form. I don't know why it was not tested properly in beta, but it could have something to do with the fact that many testers are not putting much time in beta.

theres a lot of things i could say to clear things up about the beta but unfortunately i cant. in any case, there are counters that pq himself has suggested and other counters that i heard from other circles of players, such as fast fighting positions, using buildings to break/avoid suppression, smoke, m20, soviet t2, attacking from multiple angles, elite riflemen, etc. the thing is the majority of these counters wont work in every situation, and thats where the player has to take a step further and see what they can do.

theres a lot of things i could say to clear things up about the beta but unfortunately i cant. in any case, there are counters that pq himself has suggested and other counters that i heard from other circles of players, such as fast fighting positions, using buildings to break/avoid suppression, smoke, m20, soviet t2, attacking from multiple angles, elite riflemen, etc. the thing is the majority of these counters wont work in every situation, and thats where the player has to take a step further and see what they can do.

Yes, I understand you can't speak openly, but I think you agree that dumping this unit on the players with no clue how it can be countered and expecting them to "find a way" is not right.

When I was in there, the volunteer balance group had about as much developer interaction as CoH2.org does.

if relic really doesnt want spam to exist then they can do what they did with the later DoW expansions and just set a hard cap to certain units. as long as effective units exist, you'll see them in quantity.

im not condoning brads decisions, but i think as a community we need to step back and reasses what the term 'abuse' really means.

I agree, and generally am of the opinion that if the unit made it through testing to live then you shouldn't be shamed for using it. In this case however, I called it "abuse" because he obviously knows the community sentiment regarding the kubel, and was poking the angry bear for a reaction. I guess it's just a word that I used for lack of a better term.