They've returned

PGrens are fine. They're probably one of the most balanced infantry units in the game. Effective, without being over the top like Obers.

Yes guys I am a former sovjet fanboy but after I started to play the other side I have found my favourite faction now: The axis.

B2T: I seriously think they are fine. Yesterday, we played an amazing 3vs3 on Lienne and on the right side of the map, me (OH) and my opponent (US) fought an incredible challening infantry fight where good micro decided. The PGrens sucked when I failed microing, but were very rewarding when you success microing!

I think they are okay. Though I have problems to use them correctly. Obviously they are meant to be used mid range, but neither do I know where mid range starts and ends, nor is it as easy as to keep your unit either super close (Smgs) or on far range (Rifles). Thus I never know whether they are being used to their full potential or not.

Yes guys I am a former sovjet fanboy but after I started to play the other side I have found my favourite faction now: The axis.

B2T: I seriously think they are fine. Yesterday, we played an amazing 3vs3 on Lienne and on the right side of the map, me (OH) and my opponent (US) fought an incredible challening infantry fight where good micro decided. The PGrens sucked when I failed microing, but were very rewarding when you success microing!

Hey, didn't want to be mean to you, I am just somwhat astonished. GL and HF in your games, I am also playing soviets with my team mate in 2v2 and I don't think they suck (dunno why people are complaining so much about the soviet gameplay) the only thing that bothers me is that it feels somehow easier to play with them. But that's not the soviet players fault, it's the faction design: spam, use exploit units, or die. It's quite fun though.

I think they are okay. Though I have problems to use them correctly. Obviously they are meant to be used mid range, but neither do I know where mid range starts and ends, nor is it as easy as to keep your unit either super close (Smgs) or on far range (Rifles). Thus I never know whether they are being used to their full potential or not.

Best use I found is to plop them in cover relatively close (IE max grenade range) to the enemy. The cover + their received accuracy makes them tough, and their dps is still very respectable. I've seen people use them like Shocks and to me that's a bad idea. Shocks are meant to charge in at knife's edge and rip things apart, PGrens require more finesse but can be quite effective.

Best use I found is to plop them in cover relatively close (IE max grenade range) to the enemy. The cover + their received accuracy makes them tough, and their dps is still very respectable. I've seen people use them like Shocks and to me that's a bad idea. Shocks are meant to charge in at knife's edge and rip things apart, PGrens require more finesse but can be quite effective.

How do you suggest countering them in a close quarters environment with lots of shotblockers as US? w/o using vehicles

Hey, didn't want to be mean to you, I am just somwhat astonished. GL and HF in your games, I am also playing soviets with my team mate in 2v2 and I don't think they suck (dunno why people are complaining so much about the soviet gameplay) the only thing that bothers me is that it feels somehow easier to play with them. But that's not the soviet players fault, it's the faction design: spam, use exploit units, or die. It's quite fun though.

No problem, didn't assimilate this as mean because it's like that Most of the time I play team games (also 3vs3, 4vs4) with my mates but I rather want to play with axis because the spammy playstyle of the allies is boring me. But it's like you already said, it's a faction design failure and the players are not to blame because they have to decide whether they want to spam snipers or maxims

Hey, didn't want to be mean to you, I am just somwhat astonished. GL and HF in your games, I am also playing soviets with my team mate in 2v2 and I don't think they suck (dunno why people are complaining so much about the soviet gameplay) the only thing that bothers me is that it feels somehow easier to play with them. But that's not the soviet players fault, it's the faction design: spam, use exploit units, or die. It's quite fun though.

Explanation: soviets don't suck cause they have cheese (hmmm cheese) and call ins. Depending on maps, double soviet is still the best combo IMO. BUT, if we compare stock units of vcoh2 factions vs WFA, we see a big designed problem. While you can rely on playing without tech as USF or OKW, you heavily depend on doctrines as Soviet and on a lesser way OH (Tigers).

if fanboys with such an avatar say they re fine, they definitely should change them *kidding*

Look at his playercard. He is an undercover Soviet spy, just like me.

KGB agent reporting for duty!

Man, when did people get so scared to say "overpowered" or "underpowered"? Do people say "overperforming" to avoid being called a scrub that needs to l2p? It's rather annoying.

PG is still a joke.

Man, when did people get so scared to say "overpowered" or "underpowered"? Do people say "overperforming" to avoid being called a scrub that needs to l2p? It's rather annoying.

the word Overpowered is a loaded word in fact that you think the unit is insanely effective for it's price. Wich i tried to aviod by choosing that word instead

Man, when did people get so scared to say "overpowered" or "underpowered"? Do people say "overperforming" to avoid being called a scrub that needs to l2p? It's rather annoying.

Scared? 80% of all words used on these forums are "overpowered" and "underpowered".

How do you suggest countering them in a close quarters environment with lots of shotblockers as US? w/o using vehicles

Grenades.

Rifle Company flamethrower.

AssEngies mixed with rifles.

Thompson paras.

Off the top of my head. I know Thompson paras shit all over them, but of course that means going airborne. Grenades are good, but good players will often dodge them. Still, I find it harder to counter them as Soviets if I don't have Shocks.

So, last patch they were too weak (according to a lot of people in the community). Nothing (major) changed about them and to be honest, nothing major changed about the stuff they are facing. Definitely nothing that would make them go from "Utterly useless" to "Wtf godlike".

Anyways, just wait for something:
Go face Stormtroopers with the StG44 upgrade.

Now something that warrants QQ in my opinion - Stormtroopers. Why?
270 MP value on the squad, .75 received accuracy modifier (PGrens have .8). Same weapons as PGrens, same Nade, but also an ability pretty much like the Thompson Paras have. Oh, did I already mention they are 270 MP? Yes, that's a whooping 70 MP less for a better squad if you pay the one time 50 MP fee to buy them and 100 (I think) munition to upgrade them. Think long term, bra.

This also nicely indicates why I dislike upgrades so much and I pretty much ALWAYS argue against trying to balance the game by gaming X (be it Conscripts or Penals or Volks or whatever) a weapon upgrade. That just means this squad (in most games) gets spammed and the upgrade becomes somewhat mandatory.

100 ammo is a lot, however, much more value than 70 manpower, and Storms are doctrinal. Plus, Storms have two upgrade paths so its not like MP44s are the only possible option.

You also forget they have cloak in cover. This does make them very good at using both their shrecks and their MP44s.

So, last patch they were too weak (according to a lot of people in the community). Nothing (major) changed about them and to be honest, nothing major changed about the stuff they are facing. Definitely nothing that would make them go from "Utterly useless" to "Wtf godlike".

LMGs and BARs got nerfed and PGrens got slightly better received accuracy, probably has something to do with them feeling much more survivable.

100 ammo is a lot, however, much more value than 70 manpower, and Storms are doctrinal. Plus, Storms have two upgrade paths so its not like MP44s are the only possible option.

Every Pgren costs 9MP more than every stormtrooper to reinforce iirc, which would add up in the long run (Munitions are sunk once for the squad and never again whereas manpower becomes increasingly valuable as games drag on). reinforcing a 1 man Pgren squad to full squad size 20 times would cost 540MP more than doing the same for an equivalent storm squad.