The New Soviet/Ostheer Matchup

I'd like a to talk about the way this patch has affected the 1v1 Soviet/Ostheer matchup.

Since the patch, I've been encountering the same strat over and over again in 1v1 matchmaking (or variations on it): Maxim spam into a T34 rush. Maxim spam has been around for ages but it seems worse than ever now that the 25% recieved accuracy penalty on Soviet weapon teams has been removed. Meanwhile, the changes to Grens seem pretty worrying as they are now thoroughly outmatched by Cons. The Relic patch notes suggest that Grens should be advantaged at long range, but I am finding it very difficult to keep Cons at long range due to the ease of Oorah!ing and then moving to a slightly closer piece of cover. Additionally, the 4 man Gren squad makes firefights very volatile since losing an unlucky model early on results in complete defeat. This is made all the worse by the fact that healing requires an investment of munitions.

Previously, I would simply build a mortar in response to Maxims, and rely on the fact that once LMGs were upgraded Grens could shred Maxim squads if they flanked the arc. Now, I find that this isn't enough, but any greater investment of fuel/munitions in stuff to counter Maxims simply results in me being all the more fucked once the T34 (or even T70) hits the field.

Has everyone else had similar experiences, or do I just need to "L2P"? My previous build order was Gren, Gren, MG, Gren, MG; with the appropriate flexibility based on map or my opponents units. Now, I've been trying various BOs and doctrines and can't find anything that really works. What should I be doing in this matchup?

I dont feel that the patch significantly changed ostheer early game, but otherwise i totally agree with you (and am similarly ranked as ostheer bouncing from 500-1000).

What it boils down to is that grens are a t1 infantry that is outclassed by t0 infantry of both allied factions, so not only will you always be behind due to time to build t1, mp cost, and lack of capping while building t1, but also the infantry you get is unquestionably weaker. Theoretically, the versatility offered by the t1 building should out weigh these setbacks, but a vast vast majority of the time, it doesnt.

I'm having a much harder time dealing with shock troops now that it's more difficult to kill models while they close in. Now that the encirclement doctrine is out, I recommend using it so you can use the awesome sprint ability on everything (most useful thing in the doctrine, rest is meh). German snipers + sprint is amazing, so are Pgrens and sprint to clear out the maxims.

I wouldn't personally get any MGs vs strait maxim spam, They lose 1v1 and gren spam should be able to handle what little conscripts if any your opponent produces. A mortar is the most direct counter against a maxim you need one or several. Just mortar him to death and slowly push forward. Additionally if you get a mortar HT its probably the hardest counter vs maxim spam.

Pgrens should also be exceptionally good vs conscripts now and with a mortar you can use smoke to just run up to maxims or to soft retreat if you get caught

4 grens straight up is best vs all soviet tier starts. Then mg42, 222, sniper or mortar. Early mg42 is mostly good vs script starts and USF.

Grens are now more durable. You should spread out in pairs and always stick to cover first. Flank maxims individually and time large tactical pushes (don't send in squads one by one to get suppressed/killed only to retreat). The stun grenade from Elite Troops doctrine is the best for clearing buildings. The breakthrough sprint is also neat.

It's also good vs T1 because the more grens on the field can handle m3s with focus fire and also push off early snipers as well.

Here's my BO.

Gren Gren MG42 MG42 Mortar BP1 T2 Pak Pgren

The idea is that for the first engagement you should put both grens together to form a full squad of 8 men. You will sacrifice map control for this but if he's not smart enough he will lose some manpower and some map control as well. The double MG42 is there to support the grenadiere and defend a place. One for defence, the other following your grenadiere. The mortar will kill the Maxim gunners pretty well. If he gets a mortar, you kill it then take it for yourself to form a mini mortar battery. You can kill Maxims even easier. Pak is just for reassurance just in case he goes down to T1 instead for sniper. The Pgrens only serve to make it worse for the Maxim. Grens draw fire, Pgrens flank and destroy.

Here's my BO.

Gren Gren MG42 MG42 Mortar BP1 T2 Pak Pgren

The idea is that for the first engagement you should put both grens together to form a full squad of 8 men. You will sacrifice map control for this but if he's not smart enough he will lose some manpower and some map control as well. The double MG42 is there to support the grenadiere and defend a place. One for defence, the other following your grenadiere. The mortar will kill the Maxim gunners pretty well. If he gets a mortar, you kill it then take it for yourself to form a mini mortar battery. You can kill Maxims even easier. Pak is just for reassurance just in case he goes down to T1 instead for sniper. The Pgrens only serve to make it worse for the Maxim. Grens draw fire, Pgrens flank and destroy.

Steel, this BO really restricts your capping power.
Do you change it with different 1v1 maps? (Do you usually play 2v2 or team games?) How many strat points do you usually hold on to? 3+ a fuel point? Do you push for fuel with your double gren + MG, or do you push for cutoff? Or both?

I prefer 3 grens and 1 mg42; I change that depending on the situation; sometimes a sniper, sometimes a second MG or a mortar. Sometimes I gren spam and get five (like Cataclaw).
My play style is a more mobile one, with less emphasis on combined arms.
After the spring patches of 2014 I built three grens and two PGs. My rank went up about 1,000 and I ended many games before 20/25 minutes. Gone are the glory days...

In general: I have found that the gren/con matchup is much more even than it was, so mp drain is more of an issue now. The changes focus more on combined arms, which overall is a good thing for the gameplay.

Nothing Wrong with an Early MG. If you get flanked early on you are doomed but otherwise its a fine. It can only be your first unit on certain maps like Ferma Summer but remember to keep it back a little.


As Ost, its more important to hold Cap points than to steal theirs. Wait until you repulse a large push then move up your MGs into cut off points. Here the goal is to deny them resources and cause MP bleed. I wouldn't have more than 2 MGs at a time.

Maxim spam is incredibly annoying. The secret behind it is that they trade so well versus you and have a big mp advantage if you aren't careful. Often people panic and just try to focus fire down a building. They'll lose like twice the mp of the soviet and over many battles, that's a big disadvantage. It's also very frustrating on maps with lots of buildings. Lots of people also waste teching and resources on building too many counters to the maxims and get overwhelmed when something like the 2-T34 callin comes in.

I usually go Gren, Gren, MG, GRen into whatever counters them as the 5th unit. A mortar team or 5th grenadier group is usually my 5th unit against this comp.

If it's a very open map, then I will just constantly cap around them and most importantly use my lone mg to camp their fuel point or cutoff point to the fuel. This will slow down their teching a lot. Since maxim spam is immobile, you should be able to cap around them.

Then I get t2 and save up fuel to upgrade to tier 3 when I then go and get a halftrack and upgrade it to a flamewuffer. I then do a big push to support the flamewuffer and can often get at least 2 support squads. The trick is to have a few units support your flame wuffer and also have like 2 grenadiers near their retreat paths to finish off retreating support groups. It's easier said than done but it's very punishing to the strategy. The game is pretty much over if they lose even 2 support squads because they will have little offensive power or capping power at that point.

It's even ok to lose the flamewuffer if you trade well. I am happy to trade it for a weapon squad + at least 300MP of damage which I find easy to do because they really roast infrantry hard. The flamewuffer only costs 200 mp even though it does take a bit of fuel and munitions. You'll rarely find any doctrine ability that uses munitions that can kill as much stuff as a flamewuffer.

That much damage will give you back map control and allow you to transition into the late game with a big advantage.