Can we get a tank rules of thumb thread going?
T34/76 =< P4
T34/85 > P4
M4A3 =< P4
E8 > P4
Tiger > E8
2E8 > Tiger
Ace = 2E8
Panther > E8
2 E8 >= (slightly greater) Panther
More?
Tank Matchups Rules of Thumb
9 Sep 2014, 16:40 PM
#1
Posts: 395
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
9 Sep 2014, 16:43 PM
#2
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
What is this based on? Cost effectiveness? Overall effectiveness per unit?
9 Sep 2014, 16:45 PM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Except its not T34/76 and normal sherman=P4.
Its T34 and sherman<P4.
Armor and penetration drop difference does make a significant difference here.
Its T34 and sherman<P4.
Armor and penetration drop difference does make a significant difference here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Sep 2014, 16:46 PM
#4
Posts: 395
Their ability to fight each other. If I bring 2 E8s to a fight (and nothing more) against a tiger, I can reasonably expect victory with proper mirco
T34/76 I can expect to lose to a badly damaged P4 or destroy the P4 with terrible damage of its own
Like comparing chess pieces. Bishop equals knight. Rook beats both. But B and K together beat rook
T34/76 I can expect to lose to a badly damaged P4 or destroy the P4 with terrible damage of its own
Like comparing chess pieces. Bishop equals knight. Rook beats both. But B and K together beat rook
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
9 Sep 2014, 16:48 PM
#5
Posts: 2053
CoH2 units dont work like chess pieces...
9 Sep 2014, 16:48 PM
#6
Posts: 978
The most important rule of tank matchup:
Don´t ever build the Panther.
Don´t ever build the Panther.
9 Sep 2014, 16:49 PM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
CoH2 units dont work like chess pieces...
And there I was thinking you just build your fav LMG unit and type "check mate" on chat.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Sep 2014, 16:52 PM
#8
Posts: 395
Except its not T34/76 and normal sherman=P4.
Its T34 and sherman<P4.
Armor and penetration drop difference does make a significant difference here.
Interesting. Can you elaborate? I thought I've noticed my T34s underperforming
CoH2 units dont work like chess pieces...
Obviously but we can approximate
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
9 Sep 2014, 16:52 PM
#9
Posts: 2070
it becomes tricky when you bring micro into the equation. theoretically a t70 can beat out the KT right?
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
9 Sep 2014, 17:00 PM
#10
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
it becomes tricky when you bring micro into the equation. theoretically a t70 can beat out the KT right?
No. You could drive the king tiger back into a corner to make it impossible for the T70 to circle strafe you.
The KT has so much health and armor that you can do this even on the largest of maps.
9 Sep 2014, 17:01 PM
#11
Posts: 395
No. You could drive the king tiger back into a corner to make it impossible for the T70 to circle strafe you.
The KT has so much health and armor that you can do this even on the largest of maps.
technically speaking, moving your KT into a corner counts as microing it.
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
9 Sep 2014, 17:02 PM
#12
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Interesting. Can you elaborate? I thought I've noticed my T34s underperforming
The T34 has a low velocity gun which has a greater penetration drop of compared to the P4. Realistically the odds are very much in the P4s favor in a 1v1 unless you are somehow shooting at each others rear armor.
9 Sep 2014, 17:05 PM
#13
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
technically speaking, moving your KT into a corner counts as microing it.
Yes, but it's silly to 'take micro into the equation' and only apply it to one party. A well micro-ed T70 can kill a KT that is not being micro-ed. But a well micro-ed T70 will not kill an KT that is even slightly micro-ed.
9 Sep 2014, 17:08 PM
#14
Posts: 2070
SO I guess KT and JGTiger beats all
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
9 Sep 2014, 17:14 PM
#15
Posts: 395
The T34 has a low velocity gun which has a greater penetration drop of compared to the P4. Realistically the odds are very much in the P4s favor in a 1v1 unless you are somehow shooting at each others rear armor.
Thanks for the heads up. I was hoping stuff like this would come out in this thread
SO I guess KT and JGTiger beats all
Murky because circle strafe. Obviously they can outslug anything though
Yes, but it's silly to 'take micro into the equation' and only apply it to one party. A well micro-ed T70 can kill a KT that is not being micro-ed. But a well micro-ed T70 will not kill an KT that is even slightly micro-ed.
Of course, just being technical
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
9 Sep 2014, 22:14 PM
#16
Posts: 365
the gist of all axis vs allies match up is that axis tanks are better but cost more.
9 Sep 2014, 22:17 PM
#17
Posts: 365
Their ability to fight each other. If I bring 2 E8s to a fight (and nothing more) against a tiger, I can reasonably expect victory with proper mirco
T34/76 I can expect to lose to a badly damaged P4 or destroy the P4 with terrible damage of its own
Like comparing chess pieces. Bishop equals knight. Rook beats both. But B and K together beat rook
thats not actually how scoring of chess pieces works. You wouldnt trade a bishop and a knight to capture a rook.
9 Sep 2014, 22:21 PM
#18
Posts: 332
The most important rule of tank matchup:
Don´t ever build the Panther.
Why not? It is a solid tank if you know how to use it, even more now so it's had a buff.
People keep trying to rush it in and use it as a flanker, it used to work as a rusher/flanker but not anymore, it is a keep at range and snipe tank/chase down fleeing enemies, always keep frontal armour to enemy tanks and you will bounce most things.
However Panther's used to bounce SU85's reliably for me before this patch, now it seems SU85's penetrate Panther regularly without fail, I don't want to say SU85 got an undocumented penetration buff, but it sure feels like it.
9 Sep 2014, 22:58 PM
#19
Posts: 395
thats not actually how scoring of chess pieces works. You wouldnt trade a bishop and a knight to capture a rook.
I said B and K are together better than R.
I think the analogy works quite well too! In rare circumstances (enough pawns on the board), knight or bishop can be better alone than a rook, and how many pawns, how many pieces left, and their configuration can give a rough determination of whether K or B is better (if you really understand chess and have studied the theory that is).
I think Double E8 vs Tiger matches up fantastically with Double bishop vs Rook and pawn/2 pawns (pawn being a panzershrek/light AT support).
Of course, these are all analogies that are frankly redundant so can we go back to discussing tank matchups?
I bought vCoH on January 3rd, 2007.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
Still missing the days of vCoH 1.71. It had it's issues, like paks sniping 57s, and the strafe didn't work, but overall, it was probably the most balanced time in CoH history.
OF ruined that. CoH 2 is....balanced in a nasty way. Everyone has an equal stockpile of gamebreaking bullshit. USA is full of early game BS while the OKW doesn't get its BS until late game. It's just a question of how badly you exploit the faction's shit and how quickly, after a patch, you discover the gaping holes of bullshit Relic leaves. But either way, it's all BS. The only "BS" in vCoH that was gamechanging was the fast m8 vs a bunker.
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