Panther and tier 4

How about you compare survivability as well, which makes it apparently OP according to your way of thinking?

Its the only non doctrinal tank hunter that doesn't explode when AT infantry thinks about it really hard or any armor gets within 40 range.

You want it to have as much punch as squishy TDs, strip its survivability.

it cost 175 fuel it can have both.

it cost 175 fuel it can have both.

That's why we are saying that cost should be reduced.

Ostheer panther and tier 4 - these issues have been discussed very intesely lately, so I'm pretty sure they will be adressed in the next patch.

If not... well... It would mean that Relic doesn't listen to the community.

That's why we are saying that cost should be reduced.

At this performance cost is 150 fuel if e8 is 135 and 1-2 shots infantry too and t-34/85 at 130 furl plus both costing 100 plus manpower less than panther.Panther's DPS is so shit along with its accuracy i'll never use it.why use a tank that has LESS DPS than pivs,even worse accuracy and no AI almost.Total shit tank in tank killing role,its a glorified meatshield.
U can nerf 50 range..it'll miss half the time anyway and needs spotter..which is useless in actual 'tank -hunting role'.If i want to use it defensively with spotter for range i'll get a pak thank u.

Ostheer panther and tier 4 - these issues have been discussed very intesely lately, so I'm pretty sure they will be adressed in the next patch.

If not... well... It would mean that Relic doesn't listen to the community.

I'm not sure,relic balance team has systematically ignored ostheer faction and has done so for 6 months now.Barely gets a mention in patches.Because this faction is 'balanced' at gren and tiger.Making any changes to other units of this faction may upset the balance,so this is no no.

it´s really stupid that it is overpriced since april 5 months ago. that has to change to make Ostheers tier 4 worth building insteed of tigers.

Ost Panther is perhaps the most cost-inefficient vehicle in the game. The only real competitors to it for the top spot in terms of overall uselessness would be the SU 76 and OKW PIV.

Katitof et al., maybe just provide a replay of Panther usage against a decent (lets say top 200 ish) opponent in competitive play. Personally, I dont use them anymore and never see them in general, and I suspect thats for a reason. Quite frankly, the notion that the Panther is somehow "fine" without tangible proof otherwise strains credulity so badly that it just cannot be taken seriously.

Honestly, I feel that the ostheer panthers overpricing problem can be fixed with a simple fuel cost swap between the bps and the buildings. This would allow ostheer players to forgoe t3 and go to t4 as a more costly "alternative." In terms of the unit itself, i think that it is OK the way it is if they could give it a small accuracy buff, to make it similar to the OKW panther. Of course, these changes will be redundant unless the callin of heavy tanks is changed to make them less viable.

Still the problem remains that the Panther does less damage per second than Panzer IV, T-34/85, Sherman Easy8 (lol btw).

Added to that it has less anti infantry capabilities than any of those mentioned (lol).

It has the same health as a T-34/85.

It also comes at the highest cost.

If you can´t see why it´s useless, you are either blind or you don´t want to see it.

Why would i pay that massive cost for my top of the 'AT tank' that lolz,does less DPS than my general medium tank p4,also has little to no AI and misses half the time?Why?How is less DPS than panzer 4 justified given that it also has massively less utility by inf and at guns than p4?Glorified meatshield ,nothing else...

Still the problem remains that the Panther does less damage per second than Panzer IV, T-34/85, Sherman Easy8 (lol btw).

Added to that it has less anti infantry capabilities than any of those mentioned (lol).

It has the same health as a T-34/85.

It also comes at the highest cost.

If you can´t see why it´s useless, you are either blind or you don´t want to see it.

Answer is obvious,they don't want to see it.The same way they don't want to see the ISU.

The problem is that some people fear the return of the unkillable panther but those times will never appear again. their was a time that the t-34 only did 80 damage a shot their was also a time that a p4 could kill the 85. the soviet medium armor has been buffed to the point that it represents a credible threat to heavy armor with proper flanking. now is the time that the panther once again fulfils it role as a tank destroyer.

The problem is that some people fear the return of the unkillable panther but those times will never appear again. their was a time that the t-34 only did 80 damage a shot their was also a time that a p4 could kill the 85. the soviet medium armor has been buffed to the point that it represents a credible threat to heavy armor with proper flanking. now is the time that the panther once again fulfils it role as a tank destroyer.

That was also when blitz was in original form and vet 2 gave brutal bonuses and also it had 960 hp.Just boogeyman tales to keep panther extinct and ostheer 1 tank faction.

Are panthers stats fine: barely.
>> Give OKW stats at first.

Is OH teching cost fine, specially in comparison to new factions: nope
>>T2 needs to be brought a bit faster, swapping cost from BP and Tiers can help, etc.

Is teching in general good for what you get: nope.
>> Call in + New faction teching design and stock units are better

Is Panther cost fine: barely not.
>> This is what happens when you stack nerfs/buffs. Reduce fuel cost to 160 and see how it performs with same stats as OKW Panther.

Whats the diff between the OKW panther and OH panther? A slight accuracy buff at one range? doesn't seem that noticeable does it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Whats the diff between the OKW panther and OH panther? A slight accuracy buff at one range? doesn't seem that noticeable does it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

No difference.

Panther needs a cost decrease to 160, Increase in AI ability, and damage vs tanks is currently not enough for it to be feared for a tank that is ridiculously expensive needs a 15-20% DPS increase would assist

Whats the diff between the OKW panther and OH panther? A slight accuracy buff at one range? doesn't seem that noticeable does it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

No difference. Its something allied players have fabricated

No difference. Its something allied players have fabricated

not true check out the spreadsheet, but afaik the difference is very very small.

Whats the diff between the OKW panther and OH panther? A slight accuracy buff at one range? doesn't seem that noticeable does it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The percentage difference look small but it impacts more than one might think at first glance. approx 100% increase in acc at long range while moving, 50% increase in acc at short while moving, 50% increase in acc at long while still. little to no difference at close range not moving as both will always hit at point blank.

Significantly increased accuracy at range, somewhat improved accuracy close, much much better at hitting targets on the move.

For example, here are a couple calculations.

Moving Wehr Panther vs T34, max range: 0.025 X 22 X 0.5 = 27.5% chance to hit. Not impressive.
Moving OKW Panther vs T34, max range: 0.035 * 22 * 0.65 = 50.5% chance to hit, much better.

Moving Wehr Panther vs T34, point blank: 0.05 * 22 X 0.5 = 55%
Moving OKW Panther vs T34, point blank: 0.055 * 22 X 0.65 = 78.6%. Again, much better.

Basically you can actually chase and kill stuff at max range, and you won't get nearly as many annoying point blank misses where the panther is prodding the t34 with it's gun and the shot flies into the ground. You can also kite stuff like IS2s without shots flying wildly everywhere more often than not.

Wehr panther vs T34, max range 55%
OKW panther vs T34, max range 77%

Similar applies when both tanks aren't moving. You can count on the OKW panther, but the wehr panther is a coinflip.