Okw Balance

Have you forgotten that volks have much greater received accuracy scaling, which means model advantage have any value only against weapons that one shot models?
Past vet0 cons will not win without lucky model focusing while volks will endure easily and they can support themselves with potent non upgraded needed nades.

Wait are you suggesting that cons do not get vet or something?

Have you forgotten that scripts have 20 % more hp then the volks? and long range dps is not really important its easy for the scripts to walk over to the cons

Yes, walk your conscripts over to my Volks, by all means. You won't eat a grenade, I promise. And my better veterancy also won't allow me to win anyway unless you have PPShs. And I surely don't have Sturmpios around just waiting for you to get in range either.

This is nuts. All decent OKW players I see make good use of Volks, who are a great unit. Tough, great scaling via shrecks, free grenade, amazing veterancy, there isn't a game where I don't get 3 of them, sometimes 4, and they rarely fail me. As soon as they hit vet 1 and I get my truck, conscripts cannot compete anymore, and at vet 2 they can start standing up to unupgraded rifles if in cover. And once allied infantry becomes too powerful? OKW has a bevy of powerful elite infantry, and bar the Falls they are all very cost-effective. OKW probably has the best infantry roster in the game, and Volks are very much a good part of that.

You won't find a top OKW player that ever says Volks suck. Sorry. Because they are a good unit.

Jaigen, if you can't win with OKW, you can't win with anybody. It's time to find a new hobby.

i never said that did i? i said some aspects of the okw are a bit up, volks among them. this is also a minor issue and volks only needs a minor buff. but some idiots here cannot post anything without blowing things out of context. volks are currently a cost ineffective unit compared to other factions baseline infantry.

yes units gain vet and okw vet is the strongest of all vets in the game. but vet 4 and 5 are not their to make an unit on par with other units its their to reward an okw player with a much more powerful unit then the other factions. vet 4 and 5 is also not easily given yet some tards believe volks start with vet 5.

elchino7 foolishly posted comparisons and proved my point. the dps between scripts and volks is near identical at close and mid range. scripts however have 1 more men then the volks and will win every encounter at those ranges. scripts also have more utility. the combination of oorah at nades and molotovs makes them more flexible. the grenades of the volks are useful no doubt but the ability to deny an enemy heavy cover with molotovs is even better. a 90 ammo shrek is overpriced but its still decent support at. but tanks are primarily destroyed if they are engine damaged at are far better support at then a single shrek.

Yes, walk your conscripts over to my Volks, by all means. You won't eat a grenade, I promise. And my better veterancy also won't allow me to win anyway unless you have PPShs. And I surely don't have Sturmpios around just waiting for you to get in range either.

This is nuts. All decent OKW players I see make good use of Volks, who are a great unit. Tough, great scaling via shrecks, free grenade, amazing veterancy, there isn't a game where I don't get 3 of them, sometimes 4, and they rarely fail me. As soon as they hit vet 1 and I get my truck, conscripts cannot compete anymore, and at vet 2 they can start standing up to unupgraded rifles if in cover. And once allied infantry becomes too powerful? OKW has a bevy of powerful elite infantry, and bar the Falls they are all very cost-effective. OKW probably has the best infantry roster in the game, and Volks are very much a good part of that.

You won't find a top OKW player that ever says Volks suck. Sorry. Because they are a good unit.

so you start your volks with vet 1 then? im about to report you for hacking. also i tend to dodge the grenades of enemy players. also once they reach vet 1 and 2 is the is also means scripts and rifleman reach vet 1 and 2.

My god do you read

In the early game, my Volks are being supported by Sturmpios (which rip conscripts a new one) and/or Kubels. I don't let them wander off on their own unless they're in pairs or vet 2, mostly out of fear of Maxims or conspam. Once the volks gain veterancy, which they usually do at the 10 minute mark or so, conscripts are basically a non-issue unless they're superbly microed or have PPShs.

Conscript vet 1 and 2 sucks compared to volks vet 1 and 2, their vet 3 is decent but 1) conscripts rarely reach that point and 2) even if they do, by this time I have elite infantry that walks over them anyway. Plus, Volks at vet 5 shit all over scripts at vet 3, and their purpose at that point is to carry shrecks around anyway. I leave the AI heavy lifting to my Obers/Falls/fusiliers, who are only too happy to oblige. Of course that doesn't mean volks can't deal decent DPS thanks to that juicy 60% increased accuracy vet, or throw the odd grenade.

You're not going to convince anyone that Volks aren't good. They are. Good players have come and said it several times. If you can't make them work, it's your problem.

In the early game, my Volks are being supported by Sturmpios (which rip conscripts a new one) and/or Kubels. I don't let them wander off on their own unless they're in pairs or vet 2, mostly out of fear of Maxims or conspam. Once the volks gain veterancy, which they usually do at the 10 minute mark or so, conscripts are basically a non-issue unless they're superbly microed or have PPShs.

That is what this guy doesn't understand. He wants volks being more powerful than conscripts from the beginning, ignoring the fact that Sturmpios rape conscripts in the early game.

Volks start being average. Even a vet 0 they can manage a conscript squad well played, and once vetted (which it's easy having panzerschrecks) they are one of the best efficient (perfomance/value) unit in game.

That is what this guy doesn't understand. He wants volks being more powerful than conscripts from the beginning, ignoring the fact that Sturmpios rape conscripts in the early game.

Volks start being average. Even a vet 0 they can manage a conscript squad well played, and once vetted (which it's easy having panzerschrecks) they are one of the best efficient (perfomance/value) unit in game.

Of course i complete forgot that soviets do not have m3 snipers penals or maxims in the first 10 minutes. wait they do and once again your post makes no goddamn sense whatsoever. its the soviets that currently have the stronger early game. are you done failing or are you actually going to produce some real arguments?

and how many tank appear in the first 10 minutes again where you can use that shrek to vet up?

Conscript vet 1 and 2 sucks compared to volks vet 1 and 2, their vet 3 is decent but 1) conscripts rarely reach that point and 2) even if they do, by this time I have elite infantry that walks over them anyway. Plus, Volks at vet 5 shit all over scripts at vet 3, and their purpose at that point is to carry shrecks around anyway. I leave the AI heavy lifting to my Obers/Falls/fusiliers, who are only too happy to oblige. Of course that doesn't mean volks can't deal decent DPS thanks to that juicy 60% increased accuracy vet, or throw the odd grenade.

once again you fail because somehow your argument is based on the fact that scripts and volks somehow come equipped with vet. early game is just as important as late game engagements. also if you look on the vet tables scripts have superior vet all the way to vet 3.

please... the dps charts show cons beat volks close range by a hairline. Basically RNG can help any side. The courier just said that Volks basically out scale cons with the vet bonuses.

please... the dps charts show cons beat volks close range by a hairline. Basically RNG can help any side. The courier just said that Volks basically out scale cons with the vet bonuses.

this is like talking to a waterwheel oddly relaxing. we are back to the old argument which i already debunked. same dps but scripts have more men.

GO back and look at Katitofs reply....

GO back and look at Katitofs reply....

And the wheel keeps turning and turning and turning. didnt i already mention that veterancy shouldn't affect unit balance and all units need to be judged at vet 0.

Of course i complete forgot that soviets do not have m3 snipers penals or maxims in the first 10 minutes.

Seems that you want volks to be able to fight everything.
Only snipers are a true issue for an OKW player, and everyone agrees that they need a nerf.
Penals, maxims and M3 can be defeated by Volks+Sturmpios. Not a balance issue there.

Btw, building the healing truck your volks can retreat, reinforce and heal wherever you want, in my opinion that makes up for any disavantage they can have in the early game.

And as everyone is telling to you, midgame onwards volks are one of the best core infantry units. Way better than conscripts.

And the wheel keeps turning and turning and turning. didnt i already mention that veterancy shouldn't affect unit balance and all units need to be judged at vet 0.

Units should be judged according with the sinergy they have with another units as a whole. You are leaving aside Sturmpios, kubel, raketen, MG43, etc, in your volkgrenadier's balance.
All the weaknesses that vet 0 Volks have are covered by another OKW units except the sniper vulnerability.

once again you fail because somehow your argument is based on the fact that scripts and volks somehow come equipped with vet. early game is just as important as late game engagements. also if you look on the vet tables scripts have superior vet all the way to vet 3.

Superior vet? As in, the tripwire flares? The molotov throw range perhaps? Their vet 3 bonus is good, but at this point they're just playing catch-up with their vet 1 and 2 being awful. And Volks stil have 2 amazing veterancy levels to go, which they often reach thanks to being cheap and packing shrecks.

Where is your Sturmpio squad early game if you're having trouble with conscripts anyway? Where's your Kubel? If you go Luft, you can also get the amazing MG34 which along with Sturmpios or grenades shuts down conscripts hard thanks to being hard to flank.

I mean, cripes, I'm no expert, and I consistently win early engagements vs Soviets as OKW using these 4 units. Only M3 openings give me trouble, and that leaves the Soviet player wide open to a variety of vehicle rushes if you can keep it at bay (read: raketen). OKW has a good early game, you need to keep your units together sure, but considering how powerful their late-game is they need some weakness.

And the wheel keeps turning and turning and turning. didnt i already mention that veterancy shouldn't affect unit balance and all units need to be judged at vet 0.

haha then conscripts need to have a major buff then

...

Seems that you want volks to be able to fight everything.
Only snipers are a true issue for an OKW player, and everyone agrees that they need a nerf.
Penals, maxims and M3 can be defeated by Volks+Sturmpios. Not a balance issue there.

Btw, building the healing truck your volks can retreat, reinforce and heal wherever you want, in my opinion that makes up for any disavantage they can have in the early game.

And as everyone is telling to you, midgame onwards volks are one of the best core infantry units. Way better than conscripts.



Units should be judged according with the sinergy they have with another units as a whole. You are leaving aside Sturmpios, kubel, raketen, MG43, etc, in your volkgrenadier's balance.
All the weaknesses that vet 0 Volks have are covered by another OKW units except the sniper vulnerability.

stop being a failfish and try putting words in my mouth. also you fail because its widely acknowledged that ami's and soviets have the stronger starting position.

haha then conscripts need to have a major buff then

not the scripts but the penals do.

I don't even think OKW is bad in 1v1. Decent Sturmpio micro in the early game followed up by the use of Obersoldaten late game is extremely difficult to deal with. At best, they're balanced in 1v1. In team games, especially because of the trucks, OKW is completely broken.

also if you look on the vet tables scripts have superior vet all the way to vet 3.

I think i'm failing seeing something here.

-Tripwire vs -10% RA This means you have an edge during the whole fight till Cons get vet2.
-Extra range on molotov and 40%acc vs 30% acc -20% weapon cooldown. While i know accuracy is better, i think that´s pretty even (i don't want to say it's better for Volks cause i'm not sure)
-(-)23% RA -20% Cooldown -25% Recharge on AT vs -10% RA + Healing

A vet 3 conscript may defeat a vet3 Volks but at this point of the game we have plenty of elite troops so you won't make too much use of a vet3 vanilla conscript while your Volks will still keep scaling.