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Okw Balance

29 Aug 2014, 14:17 PM
#1
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

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For 1v1 is 2hard with OKW but with team games is 2easy.

What you guys think?

29 Aug 2014, 14:28 PM
#2
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

There was a big thread about this called "Problem of Axis in Teamgames" but it got locked I think lol.

I think it is just the nature of 4v4. I hope it can get balanced. If Axis hold out long enough, especially with the fuel point in their hands, it becomes an uphill battle for the Allies late game.
29 Aug 2014, 15:02 PM
#3
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

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Not only 4v4, from 2v2 and 3v3 too...

King Tiger = Win!

If the allies dont win early game or dont make a mass to kill the king tiger, they loose.

For me (play a lot with okw) on 1v1 you get good and hard matchs. But Team Games seens crazy hard (for allies), imagine 4 king tigers lol!
29 Aug 2014, 15:02 PM
#4
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

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It is tuff for OKW in 1v1's but. A campy OKW player will surley win if the wait for the elite troops and tanks.

In team games most axis players are passive. They like to set up defenses and bunkers and just wait for tigers, panthers, etc...

Allies have it some what harder, due to the fact that they are constantly fighting against the clock. They must be very aggressive and know how to micro units properly.

I think in the games current state. Passive play works alot, But being aggressive is very rewarding.

Although when im super aggressive, lots of axis players call me a hacker or cheater. Which make winning alot more satisfying :P
29 Aug 2014, 15:08 PM
#5
avatar of MadeMan

Posts: 304

I keep hearing about 4v4 games and how they devolve into Wunderwaffen out the arse every game.

I only play 1v1, so can someone enlighten me, do resources work differently in 4v4 or is it just a case of the games going for hours and fuel floating a lot more?

Maybe there needs to be some kind of massive throttle to the resource income for 4v4 matches? Because 1v1 seems much less ridiculous most of the time.
29 Aug 2014, 15:13 PM
#6
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2014, 15:08 PMMadeMan
I keep hearing about 4v4 games and how they devolve into Wunderwaffen out the arse every game.

I only play 1v1, so can someone enlighten me, do resources work differently in 4v4 or is it just a case of the games going for hours and fuel floating a lot more?

Maybe there needs to be some kind of massive throttle to the resource income for 4v4 matches? Because 1v1 seems much less ridiculous most of the time.


Tanks come fast at like 12min. Every one builds fuel/munition caches on every point. This makeds income very high.

The main problem with axis is that, An OKW/WER team will get insane income. so the will be multiple heavies and super heavies in the game.
29 Aug 2014, 15:22 PM
#7
avatar of MadeMan

Posts: 304



Tanks come fast at like 12min. Every one builds fuel/munition caches on every point. This makeds income very high.

The main problem with axis is that, An OKW/WER team will get insane income. so the will be multiple heavies and super heavies in the game.


Caches on every point? Holy shit. It sounds to me more like Relic needs to look at big team modes themselves more than balance for the units/teams. It just sounds like it's breaking the game, or like a different game mode entirely. Almost like playing 'Deathmatch' in the old Age of Empires games.
29 Aug 2014, 15:30 PM
#8
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2014, 15:22 PMMadeMan


Caches on every point? Holy shit. It sounds to me more like Relic needs to look at big team modes themselves more than balance for the units/teams. It just sounds like it's breaking the game, or like a different game mode entirely. Almost like playing 'Deathmatch' in the old Age of Empires games.


Income on each territory is increased based on the number of players in the game. in a 4v4 situation incomes are huge and so even if allies dominate for the first 20 minutes, Axis players still have plenty of fuel for late game unlike in a 1v1 situation
29 Aug 2014, 16:07 PM
#9
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

And of the maps are also very campy and feature many chokepoints. This makes it hard for any maneuver based gameplay, which probably favors Axis in late game.
29 Aug 2014, 16:52 PM
#10
avatar of Hagen67483

Posts: 65

The Problem in my opinion is that teamgame maps are to small in comparison to 1vs1 maps. Just think about the 1vs1 maps that can be played at 2vs2 too. You only need to watch half ot the map, that means less flanking possiblitys, that means support weapons are more effective, that results in defensive play and waiting for arty and heavy tanks to break the enemy defenses. That also results in long range weapon superiority. All of those things favors the OKW because it has the biggest toys and can way easier survive and get them in a teamgame then a 1vs1.
29 Aug 2014, 16:55 PM
#11
avatar of ludd3emm

Posts: 292

OKW-only suffers a lot to artillery. Mixed axis with one Ostheer to support and do the dirty, unrewarding work (build caches, reinforcement bunkers/halftrack, Stuka Bombing Run on stationary artillery etc.) makes it really difficult for any set-up of Allies to deal with late game elite infantry and super heavy tanks from OKW.

One Ostheer player in the mix that knows what he is doing will deny the very important stationary artillery that the allies have and at the same time he will massively decrease the fuel penalty to his OKW team mates. Coordinated SU/USA teams do have ways to deal with it or at least find other options on how to counter what's on the field but at the same time I understand why it must be really difficult for the Allies if two random teams are paired up in automatch.

It's not helping either that a lot of the team maps are rewarding camping which benefits the Axis team the most.
29 Aug 2014, 17:45 PM
#12
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

OKW-only suffers a lot to artillery. Mixed axis with one Ostheer to support and do the dirty, unrewarding work (build caches, reinforcement bunkers/halftrack, Stuka Bombing Run on stationary artillery etc.) makes it really difficult for any set-up of Allies to deal with late game elite infantry and super heavy tanks from OKW.

One Ostheer player in the mix that knows what he is doing will deny the very important stationary artillery that the allies have and at the same time he will massively decrease the fuel penalty to his OKW team mates. Coordinated SU/USA teams do have ways to deal with it or at least find other options on how to counter what's on the field but at the same time I understand why it must be really difficult for the Allies if two random teams are paired up in automatch.

It's not helping either that a lot of the team maps are rewarding camping which benefits the Axis team the most.


I agree. some VPs are in very defensible locations, so if Axis are able to lock it down, it becomes a nightmare for Allies. At least the Axis can [ump out heavy tanks to break the stalemate
3 Sep 2014, 01:34 AM
#13
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

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Worst nation 1v1 by far
3 Sep 2014, 02:14 AM
#14
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

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Worst nation 1v1 by far


yes its the worst, But learn to play....
3 Sep 2014, 03:27 AM
#15
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

i have noticed watching streams that if OKW can keep their troops alive for awhile, they can start to swing momentum towards their side, since the vet bonuses help them. Only saw it on stream though....
3 Sep 2014, 05:39 AM
#17
avatar of heals93

Posts: 59

OP is on the money I have really noticed this. It's a lot easier to win as Allies in team games than it is as Axis.

Axis is really punishing for mistakes especially OKW. If you don't do well with micro especially vs MG spam you're done. If you don't have map control especially fuel and a strong build order without loses to ruin it you can find your fighting a losing battle and just wasting your time.

Doing random team games ranging from 2's, 3's and 4's as OKW, a noob on the team is a loss. It's a faction that wasn't designed for new players or those that struggle to play aggressively or with a strong micro.

I takes breaks from this game for days because I am so infuriated from a loss. I even find myself wasting time on twitch and the websites, cause until a balance patch comes or new commanders to alter the meta of this game, there's just no strong desire or pull to play it.
3 Sep 2014, 06:54 AM
#18
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

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OP is on the money I have really noticed this. It's a lot easier to win as Allies in team games than it is as Axis.

Axis is really punishing for mistakes especially OKW. If you don't do well with micro especially vs MG spam you're done. If you don't have map control especially fuel and a strong build order without loses to ruin it you can find your fighting a losing battle and just wasting your time.

Doing random team games ranging from 2's, 3's and 4's as OKW, a noob on the team is a loss. It's a faction that wasn't designed for new players or those that struggle to play aggressively or with a strong micro.

I takes breaks from this game for days because I am so infuriated from a loss. I even find myself wasting time on twitch and the websites, cause until a balance patch comes or new commanders to alter the meta of this game, there's just no strong desire or pull to play it.


Ok.. Solution. camp. wait for heavies and space troops
3 Sep 2014, 09:59 AM
#19
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

Their are 3 minor issues that need to be resolved before the okw becomes viable in 1vs1.

the first and foremost issue is the panther. its supposed to be the main AT heavy tank but its very under powered for what it is doing. its very difficult to hold back soviet or American medium armor spam in 1vs1

2. call ins need to be tied to tiers. okw doesnt have any good call ins that allows it hoard massive amount of fuels and then deploy 4 85's or e8's it needs to tech and use fuel and mp giving the allies an advantage.

3. and the a minor issue but still important is that volks are currently the worst starting infantry in the game. having non of the abilities of the scripts or the raw dps of the grens volks simply do not scale well unless you reach vet 4 or 5 where they finally become viable. but units should be viable from the start and not wiat until vet.
3 Sep 2014, 10:54 AM
#20
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2014, 09:59 AMJaigen
Their are 3 minor issues that need to be resolved before the okw becomes viable in 1vs1.

the first and foremost issue is the panther. its supposed to be the main AT heavy tank but its very under powered for what it is doing. its very difficult to hold back soviet or American medium armor spam in 1vs1

2. call ins need to be tied to tiers. okw doesnt have any good call ins that allows it hoard massive amount of fuels and then deploy 4 85's or e8's it needs to tech and use fuel and mp giving the allies an advantage.

3. and the a minor issue but still important is that volks are currently the worst starting infantry in the game. having non of the abilities of the scripts or the raw dps of the grens volks simply do not scale well unless you reach vet 4 or 5 where they finally become viable. but units should be viable from the start and not wiat until vet.


I think only #2 is actually an issue.

The OKW panther performs fine against Soviet/USF medium stock tanks. It only starts to fail when you put it up against superior numbers of EZ8 and T34/85, which can be massed due to no teching cost.

OKW has plenty of infantry with very high anti-infantry DPS. Volks also scale a lot better than conscripts with nice veterancy bonus, a AT weapon upgrade, and grenades that don't require an upgrade. They also have a doctrinal ability that gives them assault grenades for only 10 ammo. I don't see the need to make volks even better. Adjusting the Kubelwagen is a much better route to take for improving the OKW early game.
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