State of Balance - August - ID

LMG gren spam is scary as fuck to anyone. PIVs or Tigers are scarier than any soviet or USF vehicle other than ISU152.

Specifically for USF, mechanized assault is a fucking nightmare with stug es+paks countering your entire army. Still quite ok against soviets but the lack of smoke is actually a large weakness there, unlike against USF.

Nope..is-2 are scarier than tiger these days as a vehicle due to armor.
LMG gren spam..lol.Shocks laugh at its fodder and USA can outblob it.USA will infact in lower game modes won't even let u get there most of the time,either 0 cp jeep or 1919 blobs or 7 minute aa halftrack.Panzer 4s?Scarier than any soviet tanks....?HAHAHAH.man ur a senior member.. i know ur currently favouring soviets as ur faction,but don't become a laughing stock ,ur bias is showing through.

Mechanized assault is one commander only really effective in 1 vs 1.And hope that u haven't lost the game early to 0 cp jeeps.Sniperspam is autowin for soviet vs OKW too.Maximspam too is super effective vs OKW.Easy eight spam is as scary a us lategame tactic as any.

Everytime it is proposed to give dead ostheer units much needed buffs u are on spot here denouncing the thread..how long do we have to play with 1 infantry and 1 tank?Wehrmacht has become stale,boring and dying due to inflexible meta and 3/4th unit roster dead.

What is wrong with buffs to panzergrenadiers and german T4?Absolutely nothing.

You know something..its easy to criticize.You do a series of videos on ostheer and show us pwn the other factions with its brilliant units.

Look at where Cruzz is on the ladder.

Then try and find dane.

Nope..is-2 are scarier than tiger these days as a vehicle due to armor.

IS-2 armor doesn't kill.
Tigers 88mm does both vehicles and infantry alike.
IS-2 is effective only against vehicles currently(inb4 spasms of denial-play with it and see how awesome AI it currently have without DSHK upgrade).

I will allow Cruzzi to replay for other stuff as I personally am tired of reasoning with brick walls who always know better even if reality slaps something entirely different right into their faces.

Look at where Cruzz is on the ladder.

Then try and find dane.

And?Being great player makes u end of argument poster?
He says pz 4 is scary as shit and i have to accept it?
Really.Sorry dude.Even if ur perma number one on ladder ur not going to convince me on that.

Nope..is-2 are scarier than tiger these days as a vehicle due to armor.
LMG gren spam..lol.Shocks laugh at its fodder and USA can outblob it.USA will infact in lower game modes won't even let u get there most of the time,either 0 cp jeep or 1919 blobs or 7 minute aa halftrack.Panzer 4s?Scarier than any soviet tanks....?HAHAHAH.man ur a senior member.. i know ur currently favouring soviets as ur faction,but don't become a laughing stock ,ur bias is showing through.

IS2 individually might be scarier at vet0, but gets nothing at vet1 and the soviet faction gives far worse support to it than Ostheer gives to Tiger. Yes I don't give a shit about shocks as long as I have grens, guards are a better choice because they come with mark target. USF jeep is not scary, it's a weak M3 and seeing it means you're not going to see the far, far better lieutenant light vehicles any time soon. AA halftrack is probably the most overrated unit for the axis fanclub, I barely can stomach even building one because of how clunky it is to use with the reverse gun position that gives it the shittiest pathfinding ever seen in Company of Heroes award.

As for what faction I favor, you could just look at my playercard to see which ones I'm doing well with or have more games as (though the number of games is a bit misleading because I'm forced to play allies due to it mostly being >80% searching as axis when I play), but I guess that's too much of an effort.

IS-2 armor doesn't kill.
Tigers 88mm does both vehicles and infantry alike.
IS-2 is effective only against vehicles currently(inb4 spasms of denial-play with it and see how awesome AI it currently have without DSHK upgrade).

I will allow Cruzzi to replay for other stuff as I personally am tired of reasoning with brick walls who always know better even if reality slaps something entirely different right into their faces.

Really?I see it one shot AT guns regularly..and kill tanks just fine.Its dmg is still great vs infantry.Tigers remain good vs inf but don't kill as fast as they used to.
IS-2 is FAR more difficult to kill by others,and 1 on 1 can now beat tiger.

Most important of all tiger is the only late game option for ostheer while is-2 is just one of many for spoilt of choice soviet a-movers.

IS-2 armor doesn't kill.
Tigers 88mm does both vehicles and infantry alike.
IS-2 is effective only against vehicles currently(inb4 spasms of denial-play with it and see how awesome AI it currently have without DSHK upgrade).

I will allow Cruzzi to replay for other stuff as I personally am tired of reasoning with brick walls who always know better even if reality slaps something entirely different right into their faces.

Do we play the same game?

And?Being great player makes u end of argument poster?
He says pz 4 is scary as shit and i have to accept it?
Really.Sorry dude.Even if ur perma number one on ladder ur not going to convince me on that.

Yes. Since we are discussing balance Cruzz's opinion carries much greater weight than yours.

Unless you can show us how this allies OP business is done and demolish some axis players for a start.

And?Being great player makes u end of argument poster?
He says pz 4 is scary as shit and i have to accept it?

Are you better then him?
Can you micro as good?
Do you have as many games with all factions?
Do you have a deep understanding of units and armies functions and capabilities?
Do you know stats?
Can you provide actual gameplay replays that would back you in any way?

Yes, in this case being great player does make the final argument.
People like to listen to people who have a clue and can prove it. Cruzz certainly can with his rank with ALL armies. What is your best for comparison?(rethorical question)

Really.Sorry dude.Even if ur perma number one on ladder ur not going to convince me on that.

Elaborate please, why some random one faction only player of unknown but presumed low ladder rank wouldn't hold on to an opinion of a player that plays equally all factions on very top level and as pretty much only player here can be called truly objective.

Even I don't always agree with better/top players, but I'm not completely immune to facts backed up by gameplay they provide to convince me to their case.

@dasheepeh
The part in bracket was specifically for players like you.
Even on official forums you have german fanboys asking if IS-2 isn't bugged for how bad its AI is recently.

IS-2 armor doesn't kill.
Tigers 88mm does both vehicles and infantry alike.
IS-2 is effective only against vehicles currently(inb4 spasms of denial-play with it and see how awesome AI it currently have without DSHK upgrade).

please point out the stats which make the IS2 worthless against infantry. is it the 5 aoe radius? its damage profile may not make full use of that radius, but thanks to crits, it doesnt really matter. is the 5.7 scatter compared to the tigers 4.3 making it unable to hit anything? maybe it was the nerf down to 160 damage while nearly doubling its reload speed?

Yes. Since we are discussing balance Cruzz's opinion carries much greater weight than yours.

Unless you can show us how this allies OP business is done and demolish some axis players for a start.

Nope.I buy this game with money and invest quite some time in this game,so my opinion counts as much as any regular coh player.Balance must be done keeping in mind majority standrad palyers as well as elite 1 vs 1 players.

I don't have to show anything..Just see the ostheer ladders.5 guys as us with nearly or above 90% win record.Only 2 wehrmacht.(among them u so congratz i guess).For a standard player soviets are most powerful faction atm.Ostheer has 1 build..1 build faction.How long is it going to be like that?And as for OP..i never used this word..i said several ostheer units are broken and dead.And several soviet units overperforming..which to my mind is perfectly reasonable.And yes allies right now have wayy more scary/cheesy stuff than wehr..i stand by this too.

wooof, play with it, compare its AI to Tiger.
This is the situation where stats alone don't tell whole story.

Just, use IS-2 and see how it fares. I had multiple instances where I could just stand in front of it with shrek volks and unload until I had to retreat because of DSHK.

And I'm not talking about one shot squad kills, I'm talking about the main gun being simply ineffective against infantry with majority of its shots missing, some missing so hilariously that they hit next sector.

Are you better then him?
Can you micro as good?
Do you have as many games with all factions?
Do you have a deep understanding of units and armies functions and capabilities?
Do you know stats?
Can you provide actual gameplay replays that would back you in any way?

Yes, in this case being great player does make the final argument.
People like to listen to people who have a clue and can prove it. Cruzz certainly can with his rank with ALL armies. What is your best for comparison?(rethorical question)


Elaborate please, why some random one faction only player of unknown but presumed low ladder rank wouldn't hold on to an opinion of a player that plays equally all factions on very top level and as pretty much only player here can be called truly objective.

Even I don't always agree with better/top players, but I'm not completely immune to facts backed up by gameplay they provide to convince me to their case.

.

Nope,he doesn't make the final argument at all.He makes an argument.As do I.Player skill alone can't determine balance,because i invested time and money in this game and have equal right to have my opinion heard.Majority players are are not highest level,sry.And nothing i have said is outrageous...i have supported buffs to dead units for a highly one dimensional faction.And no matter how many stats u throw at me i;m not going to be intimidated.Ostheer is 1 infantry,1 tank faction and i have a 1000 games with this faction.I may not be the greatest player but i know this faction inside out.Ostheer T4 and pzgrens are dead,and i will keep saying they are dead..no amount of high mighty elites can shout me down with stats.

I don't have to show anything..Just see the ostheer ladders.

See, this is exactly why your opinions holds zero value to anyone but yourself.
You can't back it up with anything.

I on the other hand can say that 1v1 games are balanced pretty much equally for all factions with 5% difference top between win loss ratios.

And guess what?
I can actually support my "opinion" by providing facts and prove! You asked to see the ladders, so lets use Legends data for the top 200 players of all factions and see what ladder have to say to us:

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/84723-win-lose-ratio-from-24-7-5-8-2014

And looky looky what the actual data says!
We need to buff oh so OP and easy win USF!

please point out the stats which make the IS2 worthless against infantry. is it the 5 aoe radius? its damage profile may not make full use of that radius, but thanks to crits, it doesnt really matter. is the 5.7 scatter compared to the tigers 4.3 making it unable to hit anything? maybe it was the nerf down to 160 damage while nearly doubling its reload speed?

The high distance scatter offset value that makes every shot that misses, miss by a mile?

It's not worthless against infantry, but the Tiger is clearly superior in that department right now.

And looky looky what the actual data says!
We need to buff oh so OP and easy win USF!

i see allies with the best 1v1 win rates.

Nope,he doesn't make the final argument at all.He makes an argument.As do I.Player skill alone can't determine balance,because i invested time and money in this game and have equal right to have my opinion heard.Majority players are are not highest level,sry.And nothing i have said is outrageous...i have supported buffs to dead units for a highly one dimensional faction.And no matter how many stats u throw at me i;m not going to be intimidated.Ostheer is 1 infantry,1 tank faction and i have a 1000 games with this faction.I may not be the greatest player but i know this faction inside out.Ostheer T4 and pzgrens are dead,and i will keep saying they are dead..no amount of high mighty elites can shout me down with stats.

maybe you should stop using your one infantry one tank build and get some mg42s to deal with shocks. Shocks are not a problem unless you only have grens

See, this is exactly why your opinions holds zero value to anyone but yourself.
You can't back it up with anything.

I on the other hand can say that 1v1 games are balanced pretty much equally for all factions with 5% difference top between win loss ratios.

And guess what?
I can actually support my "opinion" by providing facts and prove! You asked to see the ladders, so lets use Legends data for the top 200 players of all factions and see what ladder have to say to us:

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/84723-win-lose-ratio-from-24-7-5-8-2014

And looky looky what the actual data says!
We need to buff oh so OP and easy win USF!

And?
Ur post only reinforces my point.
Top 2 1 vs 1 factions - Soviets followed by americans.
2 vs 2 - OKW followed by soviets.

Where is ostheer in this?

Now coming to second point,i have never said faction OP.I have said buffs to T4 and panzergrenadiers..and yes they need buffs desperately.It says least played faction -ostheer.
Now imagine another six months with same 1 infantry,1 tank meta..will there be any wehrmacht left to play?
If it can't evolve it dies.Predicatable,boring faction...with 3/4th of its unit roster redundant.No top players 'opinion' can change this fact.

maybe you should stop using your one infantry one tank build and get some mg42s to deal with shocks. Shocks are not a problem unless you only have grens

I do use them even though its worse than both maxim and mg 34, ..don't write to change the topic..u know very well what i meant when i said 1 infantry unit.Means standard frontline unit.U don't build more than 1 or max 2 mg 42s.
Just grenadiers.Shocks are a problem when smoke is used properly as they can punish aggressive pushes by grenadiers quickly and brutally.mg 42 can deal with them defensively perfectly well,not offensively.That is cruzz's suggestion lmg 42 grens are fucking scary doesn't hold up before shocks who can murder them.It doesn't mean shocks are uncounterable.