Fix Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine medial supplies.

The Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine medical supplies ability is beyond broken. It makes units in a big radius have in-combat healing and buffed stats all for a whopping 10 ammo per crate available at 1cp.

In comparison:
- OKW valiant assault is 100 ammo and comes late. It also does not heal. A mass retreat will render the effects of the ability to a minimum.
- Medpacks, the vet1 Wehrmacht ability, can only heal 1 squad and is close to the cost of 3 crates.
- For mother russia is also 100 ammo, comes late, does not heal, and comes with a 1 minute downtime where the units are weaker.
- Concentrated Fire ability on the Artillery field officer is 25 munitions while a 10 ammo crate does the same + many other benefits.

Seriously, this ability is stupidly powerful. It also stacks so if you pick up 2 or more crates your units get insane combat effectiveness for 20-30 ammo. It's not even funny. For the stats bonus and in-combat healing

Proposed changes:
- Keep stats the same, make it 60-75 ammo for one medical drop. This will make it more in-line with Valiant Assault and For Mother Russia. It would make it possible for the enemy to retreat to minimize the impact of the drop, just like with valiant assault and for mother russia.
- Keep it cheap at 10 ammo per crate but remove all bonuses except healing, and make that out-of combat only.

Change it back, so allies can pick them up IMO.
But 60-75 ammo for one medical drop would be an Overkill.
Dont't get me wrong, but they haven't touched the medical supply ability by itself since release and now it's broken?!

btw they can sprint? Are you sure?




http://www.coh2.org/topic/22128/luftwaffe-supply-doctrine--medical-drops

Its broken.
Plus the ability to drop in the opponents base so you have line of sight is just stupid.
Its too cheap and has too many benefits.

Change it back, so allies can pick them up IMO.
But 60-75 ammo for one medical drop would be an Overkill.
Dont't get me wrong, but they haven't touched the medical supply ability by itself since release and now it's broken?!

btw they can sprint? Are you sure?




http://www.coh2.org/topic/22128/luftwaffe-supply-doctrine--medical-drops

It has probably been written off as useless form the get-go and thus never used. Just like many people claim the Sturmtiger is useless without actually exploring the unit.

60-75 would be a completely reasonable price for 1 crate considering what the ability does. It heals units in a big radius during combat, it gives them stats bonuses and sprint. There is no downside like a minute stats nerf like for mother russia.

There are many abilities that alter stats, as I have shown in the opening post. When compared to the prices of these abilities, and what they do, 60-75 ammo for a medic crate is not overkill at all.

Edit: it seems I was mistaken about the sprint ability. I was sure I saw some grens running with double speed, but maybe they were glitched by an explosion or something. Removed it from the opening post.

60-75 ammo for a crate, you high? You did know Ostheer is the most muni draining faction, right?

Well, whoever make it in current state was high too anyway.

Is it really that much of a stretch?

Look at other abilities:
Valliant Assault: 100 ammo, effects all units but comes late, does not heal.
For mother Russia: 100 ammo, comes late, has effects all units but has a huge drawback.
Focus fire: 25 ammo, for just an accuracy bonus, no healing, no defense bonus
Medpacks: 20 ammo(?) heals 1 squad out of combat. Granted, this ability is too weak at the moment.

Why is 60-75 ammo such a stretch for an ability that can totally turn a major battle around by giving fast-in combat healing and stat bonuses?

You did know Ostheer is the most muni draining faction, right?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is USF now.

I just had a 1v1 as Soviet and i couldn't use them either! WTF? Forgot to save the replay tho.

Just make it collectable for anyone. That's all. No need more changes..

Just make it collectable for anyone. That's all. No need more changes..

I don't think leaving them as artillery size S-mines is a good idea...

I don't think leaving them as artillery size S-mines is a good idea...

That has to be a (hilarious) bug, I can't see that lasting very long.

Even if the medcrates are collectable by all sides, they still ought to reduce the bonuses imparted to troops. Dropped behind 2 or 3 grens it's suicide to charge and try to pick up, and suicide to fight at range and have damage done get out-healed.

Here's a game with lots of medcrate spam-
http://www.coh2.org/replay/22198/coked-up-grenadiers

by the game end there were so many crates all over the map that his grenadiers were nearly permanently under the effect of drugs "medicine". Probably should've blown them up at some point, though...

But only axis can capture them, allies cannot take it, which makes allies retarded soldiers, and i have dealt with the med supply spam, which was imposibru MVGame

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is USF now.

No shit, I can win game using the muni in a single button and nothing else, Jeep arty on OKW truck.

Also, while we're talking about medcrates, what is actuall buff per crate?
Looks like something between 15-30% offense+defense.

Make the crates, and supply drops for that matter, able to be picked up by the enemy like before.

If imbalance persists, make the buff simply refresh with each crate that is picked up rather than stack.

No need for any radical changes.

Overall I really liked the commander when it came out. However, I have not used it recently and do not know what changes have been made to it in the meantime. So my statements are mainly based on the effectiveness I perceived back then. However, much may have changed so my suggestions may be too severe. I think it could be nerfed but the nerfs should not be over-done because at least back then the commander did not offer THAT much else (and the meta has shifted a lot since then). My suggestions would mainly aim at differentiating the two effects, making the ability more flavorful and less of a "one button does it all" type ability. Of course in that form it'd be weaker but I don't think it'd be too weak.

Some other buffs have a cooldown period in the form of their ability cooldown or even a weakness period. I think splitting up the healing and combat buff effects would be a good way to go:
1. If a unit takes damage while the healing effect is active, the healing effect stops.
2. After the combat buff ends, a unit cannot acquire a new one for x seconds. However, the effects can still be stacked.

This promotes two uses: 1. Either use it out of combat to heal troops (use one packet at a time), taking into account that troops might not be able to get a new buff effect in combat. This way the packets last longer but their effect on combat is smaller. For their pure healing effect the price (30, doctrinal, takes a while to arrive) is ok, compared to a medic bunker (60, area-bound).
2. Use the packets in a more active manner for the combat buff, either extending the effects or stacking the effects. This way the units won't get much healing from the packets and the packets are used up quickly. That way their combat buff cost would also be a little more comparable to other buff effects.

I still think they should also be usable by the enemy if you leave them lying around (incentive to use and defend them). I am also assuming that their buff effects are still stackable (which may have changed somewhen).

Allies should be able to pick the crate.
And the fuel en ammo only the player itself.

does the buff stack beyond 3 crates? IE if I pickup 6 crates am I getting 6x the bonus as compared to a single crate??

And the fuel en ammo only the player itself.

I don't think that's necessary. Maybe just make it so OKW only get 5 fuel per crate.

does the buff stack beyond 3 crates? IE if I pickup 6 crates am I getting 6x the bonus as compared to a single crate??

I don't see why not. But it's not really necessary, with 3 crates your infantry are already immortal death machines.