Thoughts on Conscripts getting a 1x DP-28 upgrade

Maybe, but it should be a unique DP-28 with the "Automatic Rifle" profile, so it would have better close - mid range while falling off at Long Range. Giving them a long range upgrade on a short range squad would eat into Grenadier's territory a little too much for my liking.

1- From scratch, they were designed as a long range elite infantry, with "suicidal" nuke and flamer. Fuck logic. Nowadays they are just "Riflemen" more focused on mid close range.

2- The SVT is not mana coming down from heaven. They suffer from the same problem as every other unit in the game without "specialized" weapons. DPS drops really fast.

3- You can make SVT effective at mid-long range, you can reduce numbers of SVT to 3 and make them more effective and give them mosins in replace, you can make flamer replace SVT with AVT to switch their role into assault units, you can...

4- I don´t know with game are you playing but Cons SUCKS BALLS at long range. Their DPS is enough to compete early game against Volks and Grens. During mid to long game they don´t cut unless with PPSH at sword, sorry, spear range.
Even though, i don´t think theres any need to give them another upgrade at the moment. If cons get DP28 there would be no reason to get Penals.

5- You get 2 DPs for 75muni.

6- I don´t want to keep giving food to the meta "upgrade all infantry units with weapons and A-MOVE"

I never said conscripts were good at range, but they are meant to stay static behind cover, that's why they have oorah and sandbags, they also have the bolt-action rifle profile that gives penalties when on the move and is meant for mid-range and long-range. Still, Conscripts suck at anything.

However Penal Battalions are meant for mid-range and not for long range, otherwise why would they have SVT-40s and a flame-thrower? The Red Army has no long range unit besides the jack of all trades Guards.

Giving conscripts DP-28s could make a lot of doctrines that do not have any doctrinal infantry that much more viable (NKVD, conscript support, defensive doc etc...). We could outfit half of our conscripts with PPSH-41 for close range and the other half with DP-28s. As for Penal Battalions I don't really think they are needed in the game, it's just a redundant unit, they overlap with conscripts a lot, and shocks troops do a better job at close range, Guards do a better job at long range.

6- I don´t want to keep giving food to the meta "upgrade all infantry units with weapons and A-MOVE

Okay then if you want conscripts to stay as it is, people should not complain about maxims.

Such a revision of conscripts should be done appropriately, as in the context of an overhaul patch where the performance of all units for all factions would be taken into consideration. Von Ivan has a point that they could become OP if spammed, although conscript spam has more to do with being everywhere, getting the cut off and harassing where the enemy is not present rather than beating the axis infantry head-on, because conscripts struggle in that department (Grenadier, Volskgrenadier, Panzerfusilier spam beats conscript spam any day).

Point is as Soviets you are forced to pick commanders with elite infantry or elite armour, whereas all other factions are not. That's proof of bad design and that Soviets needs to be looked at. When I play Ostheer commanders compliment my play style they don't complete it.

Actually, i'm changing my mind. I don't think they need them at all. Soviets have lots and lots of doctrinal infantry to make up for it (partisans,irregurals,shocks,gaurds) .

I never said conscripts were good at range, but they are meant to stay static behind cover, that's why they have oorah and sandbags, they also have the bolt-action rifle profile that gives penalties when on the move and is meant for mid-range and long-range. Still, Conscripts suck at anything.

However Penal Battalions are meant for mid-range and not for long range, otherwise why would they have SVT-40s and a flame-thrower? The Red Army has no long range unit besides the jack of all trades Guards.

Giving conscripts DP-28s could make a lot of doctrines that do not have any doctrinal infantry that much more viable (NKVD, conscript support, defensive doc etc...). We could outfit half of our conscripts with PPSH-41 for close range and the other half with DP-28s. As for Penal Battalions I don't really think they are needed in the game, it's just a redundant unit, they overlap with conscripts a lot, and shocks troops do a better job at close range, Guards do a better job at long range.

Okay then if you want conscripts to stay as it is, people should not complain about maxims.

Such a revision of conscripts should be done appropriately, as in the context of an overhaul patch where the performance of all units for all factions would be taken into consideration. Von Ivan has a point that they could become OP if spammed, although conscript spam has more to do with being everywhere, getting the cut off and harassing where the enemy is not present rather than beating the axis infantry head-on, because conscripts struggle in that department (Grenadier, Volskgrenadier, Panzerfusilier spam beats conscript spam any day).

Point is as Soviets you are forced to pick commanders with elite infantry or elite armour, whereas all other factions are not. That's proof of bad design and that Soviets needs to be looked at. When I play Ostheer commanders compliment my play style they don't complete it.

AGAIN, why would you build Penals if you can get a much more efficient with AT capabilities conscript squad. I don´t want DPs on Conscripts cause i´m foreseen far worse problems than what it could "fix".

"However Penal Battalions are meant for mid-range and not for long range, otherwise why would they have SVT-40s and a flame-thrower?"

It seems you haven´t read what i wrote. They were G43 squads at 360mp (same as PGs)You wanted them on range mostly (because dps drop fast) but you got a flamer. No one used them because price, reinforcement and you were better with either M3 + snipers.

I´m looking to put them back at their previous "elite" status (pricewise) while escaling them into the current meta of the game (WFA).
Make them by default a long range squad (i´ve already mentioned different ways of doing so), remove the satchel and give them a nade. Flamer = Assaul package replaces the nade with the satchel, gives them a flamer and changes the "profile" into more mobile close range squad (like now).

I read what you write, you just write poorly so it's difficult to get your point.

Now I comprehend you better, you want carbines to be a long range weapon profile. But you're stuck in the past, Carbines where long range 6 months ago. TODAY they are mid range/close range which makes more sense as rate of fire is more important for close quarters; so are flame-throwers. There's nothing more counter-productive than giving long range DPS units a flame-thrower as one model will carry it and never use it as it is out of range, you just lose DPS (See combat engineers).

What you want is a Penal Battalion overhaul. However for simplicity sake it's easier to give conscripts a DP-28 and call it a day than overhauling the whole carbine weapon profile and redesign Penals from scratch.

The only way to make Penal Battalions adept at long range is to give them 6 mosin nagants and accuracy bonuses on par or better than the one Guards have. Then switch the flame-thrower upgrade for a single DP-28. I like your assault package suggestion that gives them SVT-40s and the explosive satchel for mid-range range, it's sound. That way Penal Battalions remain as a dedicated AI unit with zero AT.

I really don't care if either Conscripts or Penal Battalions get redesigned for long range, but the Red Army needs a better long Range unit. The more pragmatic option is giving a DP-28 to conscripts.

It's either tweaking one of these two units or change the whole carbine profile and make it the dominant long range weapon profile again (Which will affect all factions).

I still believe that soviets have way too many different infantry squads compared to axis, that's why they overlap so much and no one uses Penals, they are redundant. When was the last time people consistently used partisans (Whose weapons are RNG dependent), irregulars or Penals? Ostheer has Grenadier, Pioneers, Panzergrenadiers, Osttruppen and Assault Grenadiers, none of those overlap in their combat roles (besides Assgrens and Pios, but one is the builder and repair unit). They need to cut the fat out of the Red army.

Lastly I'm not against your suggestions Elchino7, we just have different approaches to solve the same issue with the Red Army lack of Ranged DPS.

I'd rather see other infantry scale more reliably *cough* Penals *cough*

It is no secret that Cons definitely scale worse than Grens, by a lot, in terms of DPS/killing power but their utility easily exceeds that of Grens in most cases. If Relic were to make Cons scale throughout the entire game then there would be no reason for Soviet players to make anything except for Cons (We already see this with USF and Rifles).

So with regards to this topic in a strict sense, no - Cons should probably not get a non-doctrinal upgrade - but other Soviet infantry (except Guards, Guards perform really perfectly at the moment) could use a small amount of love. Soviet pretty clearly has difficulty dealing with mid/late game Grens once the LMGs and/or G43s start kicking in.

I'd take LMG Grens over having 6 models in a Con squad any day. Late game Ost is significantly better than Sov, early game is in Sov favor though.

Hm. Why not just overhaul Guards?

Remove a PTRS from the squad, and chop the cooldown on the PTRS to ~half of what it is right now (it was a semi-automatic rifle, ridiculous levels of recoil notwithstanding, and that's how the PTRS functions in SP), and viola! That extra man who's not a weapon-dropping risk would make a big difference I think.

Relic has already announced that they're looking at the long range vs. short range infantry disparity. I'd wait and see what they cook up.

Hm. Why not just overhaul Guards?

Remove a PTRS from the squad, and chop the cooldown on the PTRS to ~half of what it is right now (it was a semi-automatic rifle, ridiculous levels of recoil notwithstanding, and that's how the PTRS functions in SP), and viola! That extra man who's not a weapon-dropping risk would make a big difference I think.

Now this I'd like to see.