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Action Items: Balance Feedback Required!

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raw
26 Jul 2014, 08:07 AM
#161
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Posts: 644

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2014, 18:36 PMbC_

Long Range Combat:
With our change to lethality in a previous update to make cover more important. A side effect of that change was that it made long range weapons extremely effective, especially LMGs. The combination of cover, lethality, and long range has resulted in medium to short range units being overall less effective. In most situation, units that require closer range will lose too many men on approach resulting in a significant drop in offensive performance.

Feedback would be greatly appreciated and thank you!




It's good to see it is finally on the table. But what are your ideas solving this issue? Maybe there should be a clear differentiation along the armor value between "CQC" and "long range" troops?
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Marcus2389
26 Jul 2014, 08:10 AM
#162
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Cleaned the thread a bit, good morning.
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Brick Top
26 Jul 2014, 09:46 AM
#163
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Posts: 1163

Maxims: really frustrating to face many of them early game.


But we dont want to see them nerfed hard. I really like the idea of increased build time, so for example when the 1st maxim comes out early game, you go to flank it and the second one is suddenly there to shut down your flank...

This is so frustrating, a longer build time would reduce this and encourage cons more to support the maxims .

Dont forget tier structure build time and starting rss were tweaked a LOT to allow much earlier fielding of T2 units... so a build time increase would soften this effect while still keeping those builds viable.

In a mixed build like 4 cons, 2 maxims, longer build time on maxims wont have a large impact, but in 3-4 maxim builds, it will start to slow down its field presence and make flanks viable.



If there is a model reduction, maybe down to 5. I think 4 would be too harsh.

Possibly a slight MP increase of 10-20 MP to also promote not spamming them?
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OZtheWiZARD
26 Jul 2014, 10:28 AM
#164
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Posts: 1439

Make so Support weapons are not able to grab territory. Maxim spam problem solved.
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Cannonade
26 Jul 2014, 11:03 AM
#165
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 10:28 AMOZtheWiZARD
Make so Support weapons are not able to grab territory. Maxim spam problem solved.


How is that fair to other factions support teams though?

And the Devs, specifically and in no uncertain terms, are asking for feedback on Sov Support Team durability

That is the actual question at hand.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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OZtheWiZARD
26 Jul 2014, 11:43 AM
#166
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 11:03 AMCannonade


How is that fair to other factions support teams though?

And the Devs, specifically and in no uncertain terms, are asking for feedback on Sov Support Team durability

That is the actual question at hand.


Don't understand the question. This change won't affect performance of support teams at all. This way Maxim and every other HMG can stay the same.
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FrikadelleXXL
26 Jul 2014, 12:00 PM
#167
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Posts: 390

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@Devs: The problem "Maxim Spam" could be easily solved if sovjets were given infantry strong enough to face Grens in an equal combat. You can't engage on melee range everytime!
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Kreatiir
26 Jul 2014, 12:14 PM
#168
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Posts: 2819

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 12:00 PMFrikadelleXXL
@Devs: The problem "Maxim Spam" could be easily solved if sovjets were given infantry strong enough to face Grens in an equal combat. You can't engage on melee range everytime!


There we go. +1 on that.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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Erguvan
26 Jul 2014, 12:56 PM
#170
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Posts: 273

Soviet Weapon Support Teams;

Zis; Yes it is durable but has low rate of fire comparing to Pak40. To deal with especially heavy tanks, it needs to be durable.

Maxim; It is not durable even having 6 men because while this unit is on retreat, men of squad drives the machine gun on its wheels. Therefore; when it is under fire on retreat, the man who drives machine gun is killed so frequently, and then machine gun drops, new man goes to grap it, machine gun is grabbed, finally, the unit starts to move to retreat. This causes the unit delay on retreat, which mean usually death.. There is no such a case for mg42. Mg42 is carried on the shoulder of a man in the squad. If he dies, the machine gun is teleported to another man, so the unit doesnt stop on retreat.

When I use maxims, I usually retreat it when it loses 2 of its men to prevent the death due to delay caused "driver man killed" on retreat.
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Cannonade
26 Jul 2014, 13:31 PM
#171
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 11:43 AMOZtheWiZARD


Don't understand the question


The question is:

Devs are asking for feedback on the problem of Soviet Support Team durability being too high.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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OZtheWiZARD
26 Jul 2014, 15:33 PM
#172
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 13:31 PMCannonade


The question is:

Devs are asking for feedback on the problem of Soviet Support Team durability being too high.



I didn't understand your statement/ question. Never mind.


Maxim is fine. ZiS and 120mm Mortar for some reason are made of titanium or something similar as they tend to take much more beating. I would change these, leaving Maxim intact.

I would change so support teams can't cap to kill two birds with one stone and resolve the issue with Maxims over performing when spammed.
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Cannonade
26 Jul 2014, 16:08 PM
#173
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 15:33 PMOZtheWiZARD


Maxim is fine. ZiS and 120mm Mortar for some reason are made of titanium or something similar as they tend to take much more beating. I would change these, leaving Maxim intact.

Maxim/ZiS/120mm/82mm/45mm AtG all have the same durability. All are equally "titanium".

The "titanium", is the result of two extra 80hp models as compared to all other factions.

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 15:33 PMOZtheWiZARD
I would change so support teams can't cap to kill two birds with one stone and resolve the issue with Maxims over performing when spammed.


I dont see how that addresses Sov Support Team durability, or any reason how the Support Teams of both Sov, and other factions, being unable to cap would change that.

Or are you suggesting that only Sov Support Teams be unable to cap?
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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OZtheWiZARD
26 Jul 2014, 17:52 PM
#174
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Posts: 1439

Omg. It's obvious it doesn't My comment was about something else.


On the subject:

From my experience I don't have problems with Maxims being too durable because their counters can counter them quite well.
120mm Mortar and ZiS are different because Mortar can pack itself and retreat and ZiS even when flanked can take multiple tank shells and provides green cover as well (if I am not mistaken) so clearing it with infantry takes time. That's why I came out with the idea of leaving Maxim as it is and only adjust ZiS and Mortars.

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FappingFrog
26 Jul 2014, 17:56 PM
#175
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Posts: 135

If the maxim squad does get turned to 4 man, GG because of the stupid rifles nades, that can kill up to 4 members, because they like to bunch up :(
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CieZ
26 Jul 2014, 19:18 PM
#177
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Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

The durability of Soviet weapon teams is largely fine especially considering that they perform worse than the Ost counterparts in pretty much every area other than durability, and the DPS of German squads.

Maxim spam is really only an issue in team games. I don't know how they could be nerfed in team games but still be useful in 1v1. Maybe try 5 men or something... or making Soviet snipers more susceptible to counter sniping so that in team games the German sniper is more viable, since he tends to hard counter t2 spam, but gets countered pretty well by t1.

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VanA
26 Jul 2014, 21:01 PM
#178
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Posts: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 17:56 PMFappingFrog
If the maxim squad does get turned to 4 man, GG because of the stupid rifles nades, that can kill up to 4 members, because they like to bunch up :(


Axis Mg teams have 4 men, USF and Soviet have grenades also Axis' MGs are not powerfull like maxim. I mean maxim can easly suppress units. So there's no negative side of the making maxim team 4 men.

ALso every Soviet player's spamming Maxim nowadays. Especially in 1v1.
-Everybody says bait a Grenadier/Volks, flank maxim with sturmpioner / pioneer from behind. That's a cool idea but there' re more maxims that cover one maxims a**. Its shape's like this " .:. " one in the middle and two maxims cover two flanking positions, also there' re some Conscripts. I mean I could be newbie and wrong but I can see that in streams. Streamer or their opponents are doing this. Make a wall of Maxims and Conscripts while your opponents trying the break that wall build some Tanks and Katyushas.


By the way, I wrote a message here about buffing Soviet units more, well you were right I was trolling and I broke this peacefull thread. I'm respectfull man and I was sad.
--I'm sorry for acting like 5 years old kid.
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Gecko2k3
26 Jul 2014, 21:02 PM
#179
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Posts: 91

Maxim-Shocks-Isu on every game.
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pigsoup
26 Jul 2014, 22:05 PM
#180
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2014, 17:52 PMOZtheWiZARD
...
ZiS even when flanked can take multiple tank shells and provides green cover as well (if I am not mistaken) so clearing it with infantry takes time. That's why I came out with the idea of leaving Maxim as it is and only adjust ZiS and Mortars.



doesn't the green cover face the front? and whenever i flank zis either by infantry or tank, zis seems to dies just as fast when i flank pak. may be zis gets lucky rarely and take some more time.



















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