Switch M15AA with 57mm AT Gun

Not bad ideas Kyle, but lets keep changes as small as possible for this topic. A single unit swap may be easier to push than a faction overhaul.

I think everybody should keep in mind that the 30 fuel difference may not sound like much, but it is a critical amount of time for high end competitive 1v1. Not that my skills are near that level, but I think our elite players would agree it would ease the shock value.

This change would also ensure that somebody rushing a halftrack would receive a Captain instead of Lt. While the captain is good, it is a supporting unit. A free LT with teching combined with the quick M15AA is just too much additional anti inf for the faction with the best core infantry. All this and the M15AA can go toe to toe with other light vehicles with a high chance of success.

Again, a later M15AA would result in the unit being nerfed less while also diversifying the current Platoon roster with an AT gun.

You might want to incorporate something more then grens into your BO against US.

I advise MG or sniper, especially the sniper that will bleed them out quickly.

This is once again a 2vs2 player talking.

This is once again a 2vs2 player talking.

Then keep going 5 gren BO and keep wondering why you can't win against rifles and M15.

I laugh how "2v2 player" is used as an insult. "Yeah, you play the highest skill cap game mode, don't tell me how to play musical chairs you loser!"

Anyhow, I play a lot of US and I don't think it's a bad idea. The primary issue is fighting the OKW HT, if we can deal with that early on, then the USF HT can be delayed further. 57mm isn't a bad AT Gun, and it rather fits the theme of that tier.

And... Porygon... What's the difference? Really?

Then keep going 5 gren BO and keep wondering why you can't win against rifles and M15.

Please stop. Don't comment on 1v1 gameplay if you are going to be this clueless. A 5 minute Pak40 is just not feasible in 1v1.

Here is how USF vs Ostheer playes out if ostheer goes for 5 minute pak:
- USF gets 3 rifles
- Ostheer gets something along the lines of 2 grens 1 mg42.

At this point Ostheer is at a minor disadvantage in terms of firepower. Rifles are considerably more potent than vanilla grens. You have to get lucky and get a double suppress on the riflemen or you'll likely not be able to take more than 40% of the map.

Next step:
- USF gets lieutendent, then gets a AA halftrack.
- Ostheer techs up to BP1, gets T2, builds a Pak.

Now the Ostheer loses. Ostheer has 2 gren squads, a mg42 and a pio squad to deal with 3 rifles, a heavily armed lieutendent squad and a AA halftrack. USF doesn't even need to use the AA HT at this point, 3 rifles and a lieutendent are more than enough to crush the 3 T1 ostheer squads. And manpower wise the USF will have enough mp for a quick 50cal HMG follow before the ostheer can get a 4th infantry squad. Bye-Bye map control, hello basepin and have fun waiting it out till the shermans roll in to finish you off.


Out of all the suggestions made to counter the 5 minute AA halftrack, yours is the worst.

a sniper/mg42/gren/gren(in no order) seems really good against the americans until the aa halftrack comes,americans cant touch it unless those units are out of place.

you can delay it maybe a minute or so with good enough sniper play to get t2 before AA comes. idk.

its not a totally stupid idea to get a sniper against the americans,since two quick shots a and a 3/5 rifle squad is no match for grens.

Not like you have to worry about the things that gibbed the sniper before,(Like M3s,Zis,mortars,6 man squads with oorah)

this would give t2 all it needs though. Lieutenant, MG, M20 with mines, AT gun... why would you even bother with T3 with a Captain, 2 light vehicles and a 480mp howie. T2 would give you a way more solid army.

Please stop. Don't comment on 1v1 gameplay if you are going to be this clueless. A 5 minute Pak40 is just not feasible in 1v1.

Here is how USF vs Ostheer playes out if ostheer goes for 5 minute pak:
- USF gets 3 rifles
- Ostheer gets something along the lines of 2 grens 1 mg42.

At this point Ostheer is at a minor disadvantage in terms of firepower. Rifles are considerably more potent than vanilla grens. You have to get lucky and get a double suppress on the riflemen or you'll likely not be able to take more than 40% of the map.

Next step:
- USF gets lieutendent, then gets a AA halftrack.
- Ostheer techs up to BP1, gets T2, builds a Pak.

Now the Ostheer loses. Ostheer has 2 gren squads, a mg42 and a pio squad to deal with 3 rifles, a heavily armed lieutendent squad and a AA halftrack. USF doesn't even need to use the AA HT at this point, 3 rifles and a lieutendent are more than enough to crush the 3 T1 ostheer squads. And manpower wise the USF will have enough mp for a quick 50cal HMG follow before the ostheer can get a 4th infantry squad. Bye-Bye map control, hello basepin and have fun waiting it out till the shermans roll in to finish you off.


Out of all the suggestions made to counter the 5 minute AA halftrack, yours is the worst.

Ladies and gentlemen, your meta.
Playing 2v2 as OH, haven´t being able to win early game against double US. I´ve already accepted it. Don´t lose drastically the early game, survive the AA HT rush and after that the game begins.

a sniper/mg42/gren/gren(in no order) seems really good against the americans until the aa halftrack comes,americans cant touch it unless those units are out of place.

you can delay it maybe a minute or so with good enough sniper play to get t2 before AA comes. idk.

its not a totally stupid idea to get a sniper against the americans,since two quick shots a and a 3/5 rifle squad is no match for grens.

Not like you have to worry about the things that gibbed the sniper before,(Like M3s,Zis,mortars,6 man squads with oorah)

What your suggesting is not bad in fact i use it as well the problem is economics behind it. ostheer has the most expensive tech mp wise the ami's has the least expensive tech. to upgrade to tier 2 the ostheer need to invest 400 mp. the ami gain a squad by teching that is easily worth 400 mp because of the bars the lt comes equipped with. teching between these 2 factions is nearly 700 manpower difference. but at 60 fuel the ami produces an unit that requires a pak to deal with it.
or even worse the m20 utility car is my opinion just as powerful when it comes to shock.

now your 1060 mp in the red when it comes to mp you invested in AI power. OKW doesnt suffer these problems. in addition to cheaper tech and a excellent cc sturmpioneer they also have access to the puma which can nullify the entire LT tree and forces the ami's to buy zooka's setting them back in AI killing power.

What your suggesting is not bad in fact i use it as well the problem is economics behind it. ostheer has the most expensive tech mp wise the ami's has the least expensive tech. to upgrade to tier 2 the ostheer need to invest 400 mp. the ami gain a squad by teching that is easily worth 400 mp because of the bars the lt comes equipped with. teching between these 2 factions is nearly 700 manpower difference. but at 60 fuel the ami produces an unit that requires a pak to deal with it.
or even worse the m20 utility car is my opinion just as powerful when it comes to shock.

now your 1060 mp in the red when it comes to mp you invested in AI power. OKW doesnt suffer these problems. in addition to cheaper tech and a excellent cc sturmpioneer they also have access to the puma which can nullify the entire LT tree and forces the ami's to buy zooka's setting them back in AI killing power.

Agreed. You know what would be really nice? a somewhat cheaper(20-40 mp) OSTHEER sniper. The russians have everything they need to own the sniper like they have always had,and the americans would be alot less OP in some regard against OST infantry,at least early on.

I'd switch it with the Pack Howitzer, but yea I'd like to see the halftrack moved to the Captain's tier.

Now all we need is for the Pack Howwie not to fucking suck and get decrewed at 2 models.