A Versatile Army... Why no "Reward?"

there's nothing wrong with spamming imo, but there's something wrong with blobbing.

spamming a backbone unit is okay, like 3-4x rifle squads, thats fine. great players will flank with them, and generally make a mess of your lines without really getting pinned and keeping casualties low. that imo is good play.

spamming maxims to hold the line against sturmpios is fine too and if the OKW refuse to get direct counters or apply basic techniques like volks to draw fire and sturmpios flanking, then too bad, play better next time.

however, blobbing is not okay but it is open to counters. anything with splash and long range will rape blobs. however many people think that the direct counters to blob is HMG and generally deploy 1x HMG to stop a massive dps blob.

that will never happen, get the necessary units and get enough of them to match the blob. set up ambush points to bait the blob into MG and mortar zones then watch as the suppression and general dps infantry units tear his blob apart.

I do like the idea of small arms accuracy going up against large amounts of models in one place.

I think that this is not a good idea. If both players build versatile armies and one loses a unit, he is suddenly punished in two ways: losing his unit and losing (at least a part) of the bonus.

But the idea of reducing cover for 3+ squads on a spot sounds nice, as even small arms fire would be more punishing.

All the more reason not to lose it.

All the more reason not to lose it.

Noooooooo! I love my own squads getting wiped!!!

I do like the idea of small arms accuracy going up against large amounts of models in one place.

something like the negative zeal effect in COH1, that was perfectly used in the EliteMod for COH1, where two or more snipers, when near each other, would get the negative zeal, increasing the incoming accuracy.

We only started complaining about blobs after US forces came out. Soviet blobs were annoying but they were not even near as potent.
I am pretty sure one of the next balance patches will address this issue and US infantry will be toned down so they won't be able to just walk over everything. In the meant time I use ISG or Stuka to punish US blobs and it does work for me. The problem is that for me OKW is much stronger army than OH, especially in the late game.
When playing as OH I do reasonable fine with my Grens, MGs and mortars until US player reach the critical mass of units and upgrades and is able just to walk over my army (literally).
If not tweak MG42 slightly so itcan handle mid game US blob than at least tweak the accuracy penalty when suppressed so they can't actually kill my HMG regardless of being in yellow suppression state.

We only started complaining about blobs after US forces came out. Soviet blobs were annoying but they were not even near as potent.
I am pretty sure one of the next balance patches will address this issue and US infantry will be toned down so they won't be able to just walk over everything. In the meant time I use ISG or Stuka to punish US blobs and it does work for me. The problem is that for me OKW is much stronger army than OH, especially in the late game.
When playing as OH I do reasonable fine with my Grens, MGs and mortars until US player reach the critical mass of units and upgrades and is able just to walk over my army (literally).
If not tweak MG42 slightly so itcan handle mid game US blob than at least tweak the accuracy penalty when suppressed so they can't actually kill my HMG regardless of being in yellow suppression state.

Ostheer has plenty of tools to deal with blobs, close air support or assault support is pretty funny to use against them. Midlate game your mg42s should be vet2 which makes them super strong. P4s will deal with flanks and paks keep ALL of the us tanks at bay.

Ostheer has plenty of tools to deal with blobs, close air support or assault support is pretty funny to use against them. Midlate game your mg42s should be vet2 which makes them super strong. P4s will deal with flanks and paks keep ALL of the us tanks at bay.

Exactly.

But the biggest issue here is, most people that complain on the OP blobs simply refuse to get proper counters.
Assault support is even better then it ever was for 1v1 and vetted HMGs are doom of all infantry.

FHT could get some buff now that its T3 upgrade, but other then that there are all tools needed to ocunter blobs(except USF 1919 blobs, these are batshit op).

well i think the the problem with spamming is a thing that goes through the factions for diffrent reason mostly either its the easiest thing you can do or your other options are not viable for diffrent reasons (map etc.),

but let me as an not WF owning Ostheer player tell you my point of view about the factions and spamming/combined arms, beware may contain a bit bias and the grass is greener on the other side wordings^^:


The Red Army:

well the Red army is in my opinion one of the best Armys for combined arms simply cause their units work well together, best example are the Conscripts, the can fill a lot of roles depending on your commander, like CQC, repair, Cover denial, light at and also wannabe guards (as far as i know there is an ptrs commander for cons now) to that comes their merge which ist viable for almost any infantry unit exept Shocks and Snipers

but they have only one spamming problem that is the Maxim HMG, as a Unit itself it is actually well balanced the only problem is if there are 3-4+ n the field then you need huge amounts of resources to get them of the field especially in team games when USF provides Assault support.

solution:
that is to give all HMGs a limt of 2 you can build more if you want more you need to kill your own unit which takes time and a lot of resources which gives your enemy a lot of freedom in the early game and eradicating the spam problem and practically force combined arms

The USF:

well also an army that from my observation can work with combined arms very well, problem is the American blob is way more effective and needs way less supervision then using an HMG for example,

the blobing i think has actually varius stages:

Stage 1: the early riflemans, those is actually the point were you have the most chances for an decisive strike by cutting his resources on certain maps (langreskaya) here it is basically important to kill as much soldiers as you can to slow his snowballing,

Stage 2: first LMGs either through officer, CPS or unlock this is were it begins now the american player will be able to push you offmap really good, try to hold the line as good as you can and dont lose squads (actually never do that)

Stage 3: more lmgs be it bars or even worse M1919 he will now be able to simply overrun any Infantry you have and kill them in seconds even MG42 can not control them anymore if he spreads them out, it will be just made to swiss cheese shortly

my personal chances i see against that USF blobing atm are two, that are either early cutoff or "Verdun" trench fighting, where you simply play on time with pak 43, command p4, pgrens etc. and you just try to get 2 vps and then to kill as much manpower until he is dried out of it, sadly not an very effective tactic as it all depends on your early game and how many loses you can give him and who starves first

actually if i think about it, USF atm reminds me of orks from DoW2 if you can kill lots of em early you win, if you dont GG , if anyone actually has better ideas against it please tell me, i hate trench fighting its too WW1 style i always loved mobile armys since dow2 simply because you could decide where and when you fight^^

solution: maybe give them something like negativ Zeal similar to the Pios in coh 1, which made pio spam weaker

OKW:

well also a faction were i think you can use combined arms very well thanks to the teching similar to the sowjets and has a lot of options you can use and combine about spamming here dont know maybe also an limiter for the amount of units you can have but on the other side they are quite expensive and when i played against friends Red Army against OKW (me Red Army) i actually thought they are quite balanced you just need to find out what is a good combination to ruin the other guys day (liked 2 maxims + 2con + 2guards the most because you had a well rounded force against anything he can throw at you)


Ostheer:
well i think of all factions the worst faction for combined arms, mostly thanks to the teching system (cant decide what you want first like the other guys) and the MG42 which needs some mobility to be on paar with maxim and M2 afterall lets compare them a bit

the main problem ist that that nearly all other Mgs in the game are higly mobile which gives them on most maps the advantage to be used i any situation, they can support their armys very well even in citys,

first we have the maxim its a solid support for every army because it can follow them and is alomostinstantly ready to fire with the slight disadvatage of the small firezone which doesnt matter on maps with many buildings, thats why I like to capture it

and then comes the M2 i said i like to capture the maxim, well i love the M2, its an even better HMG for unit support, feels even faster then the maxim, has a huge arc and high damage and good suppression, always when i get one i need to suppress the urge to write "thank you",
if i get that against an US Player and he comes with his blob the mobility and Firepower will give my grens an equal chance to defeat them/force them off (sadly its rarely used)

oh and both of them become insanely strong in buildings thx to fast facing change

but now we get to the MG42 well it is a pretty solid weapon stats wise the only problem is the mobility it can not support squads in an attack its a pure defence weapon which can also not use builings because its there more vulnerable then in heavy cover cause an m2 or maxim will get out of the building fast and also change facing fast an 42 will not and so it becomes dead meat in buildings which will give every penal squad an grin on their face,

simple solution ist to increase mobility to a similar level of the other two, for that cut its arc down and maybe higher its price if needed, so it can really support units at the front and is usefull in buildings (of course here also we get the 2 mgs max rule)

Exactly.

But the biggest issue here is, most people that complain on the OP blobs simply refuse to get proper counters.
Assault support is even better then it ever was for 1v1 and vetted HMGs are doom of all infantry.

FHT could get some buff now that its T3 upgrade, but other then that there are all tools needed to ocunter blobs(except USF 1919 blobs, these are batshit op).

Shouldn't MG42 be an anti blob weapon? It only purpose is crowd control and against US it does this poorly. When its Vet3 than that's a different matter but unit is dead long before that.

Exactly.

But the biggest issue here is, most people that complain on the OP blobs simply refuse to get proper counters.
Assault support is even better then it ever was for 1v1 and vetted HMGs are doom of all infantry.

FHT could get some buff now that its T3 upgrade, but other then that there are all tools needed to ocunter blobs(except USF 1919 blobs, these are batshit op).

FHT versus US seems risky

It'll be bazooka bait

FHT versus US seems risky

It'll be bazooka bait

+1, it's useless as it comes way too late. Vetted MG-42s do the job much better.