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Some Thoughts on Hotkeys, Unit Control, and Micro

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Inverse
13 Mar 2013, 09:16 AM
#1
avatar of Inverse
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Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5

I talk a lot on this subject when I'm streaming, and the general attitude in the community, especially the competitive community, regarding the importance of correct RTS mechanics is at times extremely discouraging to me. I finally got around to putting my thoughts down in a coherent way; I figure this is as good a place as any to begin the discussion.



And for those of you interested in customizing your hotkeys, I've posted a quick 10-minute tutorial outlining how.



This is a very quick tutorial on how to easily customize your Company of Heroes hotkeys without relying on third-party programs such as AutoHotkey. Download links for files and applications mentioned in the video can be found below.

Copernicus' SGA Extractor: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?251494-TOOL-SGA-Extractor-%28v4-4-1-5-5-1%29

Corsix Mod Studio: http://modstudio.corsix.org/

My hotkeys: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?s=&showtopic=285329&view=findpost&p=9323636
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BlackHorseCav'
15 Mar 2013, 05:46 AM
#2
avatar of BlackHorseCav'

Posts: 56

Does a strat video. Floats 4000 MP. ggwp no re

:D

Actually, very well produced an articulated, I think I might start learning grid-keys now, or at least for CoH2 if that works.
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RagingJenni
15 Mar 2013, 13:38 PM
#3
avatar of RagingJenni

Posts: 486

Used to have WASD, but a good DoW 2 player basically helped me "see the light". Sometimes when I got the time I'll grid key my hotkeys and finally remap the tac map.

I think accurate mini map clicking is one of the things you gotta play some time to be able to do reliably. Whenever I try to mimic doing that in CoH I usually misjudge and land on the wrong location. Moving the screen with the keys is better when you're new because it gives a sense of completeness to the battlefield; I see how far the different sides are from each other, how long the distance is, I can start guessing how long it takes to walk this distance etc.

After you've played a couple of hundred games and got that map in the back of your head it's OFC no problem, you can jump around without feeling disoriented or confused. :)
No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.
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WiFiDi
15 Mar 2013, 16:07 PM
#4
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looks like inverse has never played total war series. :P

i completely disagree with this wasd is bad. however ofc the way your describing it isn't the best way to use it especially in company of heroes. however there are reasons you see this used especially in streams as quite a few players use a odd setup of windows mode that completely prevents them from moving with the mouse.

the real advantage to using wasd is that I can move the camera at the same time as i am using my mouse for something else. personally I try to use wasd when its available for making small adjustments as opposed to say moving across the entire map. in any rts game usually inefficient especially when considering there are faster ways to move around the map such as mini map and tactile map.

just my 0.02.
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gobaers
17 Mar 2013, 01:53 AM
#5
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Posts: 24

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Mar 2013, 13:38 PMRagingJenni
Used to have WASD, but a good DoW 2 player basically helped me "see the light". Sometimes when I got the time I'll grid key my hotkeys and finally remap the tac map.


I play with the default button layout with one exception: my tactical map is bound to [Space Bar], and the 'most recent event' is mapped to [Insert]. Having the tac-map handy has really improved my 'away from engagement' management. It's too bad shortcut commands don't work in the tac map, I would love to reinforce guys from inside there.

I've posted the files to do this:

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?s=&showtopic=914632&view=findpost&p=9419142
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cr4wler
17 Mar 2013, 02:05 AM
#6
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Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Mar 2013, 16:07 PMWiFiDi
looks like inverse has never played total war series. :P

i completely disagree with this wasd is bad. however ofc the way your describing it isn't the best way to use it especially in company of heroes. however there are reasons you see this used especially in streams as quite a few players use a odd setup of windows mode that completely prevents them from moving with the mouse.

the real advantage to using wasd is that I can move the camera at the same time as i am using my mouse for something else. personally I try to use wasd when its available for making small adjustments as opposed to say moving across the entire map. in any rts game usually inefficient especially when considering there are faster ways to move around the map such as mini map and tactile map.

just my 0.02.


and it seems you never read the stream guide :P

if you add "-lockmouse" to your shortcut, you are able to use the mouse to scroll without leaving your window.

using wasd to move around is not only slow and imprecise (which also takes away the argument of "oh, but i can use my mouse for other stuff at that time..." well, you could have done the same thing faster by clicking the minimap and THEN do what you were doing), but also takes away 4 hotkeys that you could otherwise use for your units, which is far more important and costs you more time than any usage of moving with arrow keys (or wasd) could save you

dont believe me? dont take my word for it... take that of a professional gamer and shoutcaster
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gunther09
17 Mar 2013, 21:04 PM
#7
avatar of gunther09
Donator 22

Posts: 538

Hi Inverse. Thanks you a lot for a nice Video.
Of course, one can now seriously debate about, what the truth is, what THE best way to control is.....
I see limited use in that.
Rather I see your video as very good inspiration to finally improve my micro and mouse/keyboard usage.
thanks!
Greetings from Nürnberg - always happy to increase our local COH pool for local events - more glory: Rankade ladder
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omgstoon
18 Mar 2013, 02:58 AM
#8
avatar of omgstoon

Posts: 7

How do you change hotkeys? I don't see anything in game to change them... alittle baffling to be honest. As the default keys are horrendous, and the ones I downloaded are better, but I'd like to make alterations.
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Inverse
18 Mar 2013, 04:22 AM
#9
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2013, 02:58 AMomgstoon
How do you change hotkeys? I don't see anything in game to change them... alittle baffling to be honest. As the default keys are horrendous, and the ones I downloaded are better, but I'd like to make alterations.


I just updated the OP with a tutorial on that very subject ^^
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TZer0
18 Mar 2013, 14:29 PM
#10
avatar of TZer0

Posts: 180

I want gridkeys soo bad.

However, for some reason, this doesn't work for me.

RelicCOH.module:
Code

[data:common:01]
folder = CoH\Data
archive.01 = WW2\Archives\WW2Data
archive.02 = WW2\Archives\WW2Art
archive.03 = WW2\Archives\WW2Sound
archive.04 = WW2\Archives\WW2ArtAmbient
archive.05 = WW2\Archives\OFSPData
archive.06 = WW2\Archives\WW2Data_KeyDefaults


When I extract the sga I made (and put into Archives), I get the following folder structure with the keydefaults.lua placed in the inner-most folder:
Code
WW2Data_KeyDefaults\data\game


Here's the warnings.log from when I launched the game once, started a skirmish and quit the game: http://pastebin.com/CJDTqpM0

Any help?
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Inverse
18 Mar 2013, 16:40 PM
#11
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5

Try moving the archive link to before the WW2Data link and see if that fixes the problem.

Code
[data:common:01]
folder = CoH\Data
archive.01 = WW2\Archives\WW2Data_KeyDefaults
archive.02 = WW2\Archives\WW2Data
archive.03 = WW2\Archives\WW2Art
archive.04 = WW2\Archives\WW2Sound
archive.05 = WW2\Archives\WW2ArtAmbient
archive.06 = WW2\Archives\OFSPData
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TZer0
18 Mar 2013, 17:20 PM
#12
avatar of TZer0

Posts: 180

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2013, 16:40 PMInverse
Try moving the archive link to before the WW2Data link and see if that fixes the problem.

Code
[data:common:01]
folder = CoH\Data
archive.01 = WW2\Archives\WW2Data_KeyDefaults
archive.02 = WW2\Archives\WW2Data
archive.03 = WW2\Archives\WW2Art
archive.04 = WW2\Archives\WW2Sound
archive.05 = WW2\Archives\WW2ArtAmbient
archive.06 = WW2\Archives\OFSPData


That worked, thanks!

Edit: you should add an annotation to the video so that people put it in front of their WW2Data-load-directive.
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Inverse
18 Mar 2013, 17:59 PM
#13
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Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5

Already done.
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T0eCutter
18 Mar 2013, 20:44 PM
#14
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Posts: 47

Thanks a lot for posting this Inverse <444>3 !
finally replaced the dam default key-setup, should have done this ages ago I guess :blush:
I am using your gridkey setup now, see no point in trying anything else like inventing the wheel (atleast not yet)

Hoping for better cutting now :thumbsup:
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MajorBloodnok
18 Mar 2013, 22:21 PM
#15
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2013, 09:16 AMInverse
I talk a lot on this subject when I'm streaming, and the general attitude in the community, especially the competitive community, regarding the importance of correct RTS mechanics is at times extremely discouraging to me. I finally got around to putting my thoughts down in a coherent way; I figure this is as good a place as any to begin the discussion.



And for those of you interested in customizing your hotkeys, I've posted a quick 10-minute tutorial outlining how.





Gj ! Thanks for taking the time :)
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Mortality
19 Mar 2013, 15:59 PM
#16
avatar of Mortality

Posts: 255

I think original COH hotkeys are just fine..., they are quite intuitive: like "N" for nades, "R" for reinforce etc..., ofc some doesn't fit such model(like "T" - retreat or "H" - stop), but its not hard to just remember those.

Very nice video all togeather, every new-comer or player willing to improve his way arround the battlefield should def. watch this
steam | twitch
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T0eCutter
20 Mar 2013, 16:43 PM
#17
avatar of T0eCutter

Posts: 47

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2013, 15:59 PMMortality
I think original COH hotkeys are just fine..., they are quite intuitive: like "N" for nades, "R" for reinforce etc..., ofc some doesn't fit such model(like "T" - retreat or "H" - stop), but its not hard to just remember those.

Very nice video all togeather, every new-comer or player willing to improve his way arround the battlefield should def. watch this


if all the important original hotkeys are implanted in the backbone you are possibly right but come on ! tactical map on "numpad 0" that sure as water is wet do not suite a right handed person.
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TZer0
28 Mar 2013, 02:21 AM
#18
avatar of TZer0

Posts: 180

Quick question, is it possible to bind doctrine abilities?

Just thinking about "For the Fatherland" vs Strafing run. If you can just hit something like ctrl+z to activate it the moment you hear the bullets hitting or the airplane, then that would be of great aid.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2013, 15:59 PMMortality
I think original COH hotkeys are just fine..., they are quite intuitive: like "N" for nades, "R" for reinforce etc..., ofc some doesn't fit such model(like "T" - retreat or "H" - stop), but its not hard to just remember those.

Very nice video all togeather, every new-comer or player willing to improve his way arround the battlefield should def. watch this

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I for sure know that they are on Q. :)
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