Walking Stuka

Panzerwerfer is RNG dependent but decent

Whoever says Panzerwerfer is decent needs a pair of glasses. It's awful. I never used one since months. That is where stupid OH nerfs took us.

US also struggles on the offmap department apart from Airborne, but that's more due to having only 3 commanders and the ''wonderful'' War Spoils system making so you could be stuck with those 3 commanders for months. Yet their mobile artillery, the Priest, is nowhere near as good, as well as doctrinal to boot, despite being fairly similar in price.

I'm comparing the Zu Fuss to its counterparts, the mobile artillerys. And in that comparison it is a very, very clear winner. Priest is OK, Panzerwerfer is RNG dependent but decent, Katyusha mostly sucks, walking Stuka is awesome. Sure, OKW units are supposed to perform well, but that doesn't mean their units cannot be OP. And if the ISU-152, a costly doctrinal direct fire unit, is considered overpowered for its ability to wipe squads, it seems to me that an indirect fire unit that costs much less yet can do the same is just wrong.

It's especially stupid against AT guns. I played a game where my opponent had a screen of them and used them well along with his T-34s. 3 barrages later, 1 gun decrewed, one captured and one outright destroyed. I also wiped a Maxim that retreated as soon as the rockets started falling and still got gibbed. I felt like the walking stuka handed me an easy win. Artillery being a blob and support weapon counter is one thing, invalidating them by its very presence is quite another.

Actually all of US offmaps are superior to OKW IMHO. And the use has the M8 which I would GLADLY turn in the Walking Stuka for in less than a second.

I think this is a knee jerk thread.

Yeah. Must be the huge special effects of the stuka strike.

But seriously, it has the lowest squad wiping potential of all weapons that kill more than one model per shell.

All tanks can squad wipe. All tanks have a much faster reload than the stuka zu fuss's cooldown. At max? It can probably wipe 3 squads because of RNG. But that usually doesnt happen as RNG alsp makes squads walk away. Do squads wall away from Tigers, ISU's, t34's, IS-2's, Sturmtigers, King Tigers? The most commonly used squad wiping weapon is THE GRENADE. Many squads have it. Molotovs crit and wipe squads. Flamethrower crit and wipe squads. Grenades land at a squad's feet and kills full health squads. You cant prevent all of this from happening to your squads. You cant prevent crits when you expect something less. The Stuka zu Fuss is another innefficient method at this squad wiping that is so prevalent in this game.

Also, the priest is shell artillery. Its also deadly accurate, especially its own creeping barrage. Its cooldown also isnt bad. You can spend forever blowing up base structures with a stuka zu fuss, but the m7 priest does it very well, especially against OKW trucks. Did i mention USF offmaps demolish set up OKW trucks?

best mobile arty in team games especially tight maps like the new train station map...

If you keep your ears opened you can easly avoid the stuka. It's fine for the cost and the long cooldown considering the 2/3 income.

I think the problems come from teamgames and closed maps where it it difficult to catch the stuka off-guard or to hear it.

hi, watch the replays, instant retreat does not, i say again, DOES NOT save squads.

so keeping ear open only lets me know the impending doom.

Yeah. Must be the huge special effects of the stuka strike.

But seriously, it has the lowest squad wiping potential of all weapons that kill more than one model per shell.

All tanks can squad wipe. All tanks have a much faster reload than the stuka zu fuss's cooldown. At max? It can probably wipe 3 squads because of RNG. But that usually doesnt happen as RNG alsp makes squads walk away. Do squads wall away from Tigers, ISU's, t34's, IS-2's, Sturmtigers, King Tigers? The most commonly used squad wiping weapon is THE GRENADE. Many squads have it. Molotovs crit and wipe squads. Flamethrower crit and wipe squads. Grenades land at a squad's feet and kills full health squads. You cant prevent all of this from happening to your squads. You cant prevent crits when you expect something less. The Stuka zu Fuss is another innefficient method at this squad wiping that is so prevalent in this game.

Also, the priest is shell artillery. Its also deadly accurate, especially its own creeping barrage. Its cooldown also isnt bad. You can spend forever blowing up base structures with a stuka zu fuss, but the m7 priest does it very well, especially against OKW trucks. Did i mention USF offmaps demolish set up OKW trucks?

seriously? you are bringing this into the argument?

everything that you said are direct fire units and MUST risk exposure to enemy fire and can be prevented. if a tanks can fire on your squads long enough to wipe squads, there's a player problem. nades are dodgable, with very usually obvious animations or a squad closing in is a good indicator.

like i explained before. stuka do not risk exposure and places all its rounds into a small area in a tiny time frame and nukes everything. that is the main difference.

you might as well say small arms have squad wipe potential too.

Small arms dont have AoE.

Whats the difference when a tank comes in, wrecks everything, and leaves unscratched?

Compared to a simple far out flank, destroying what you hate most, and backing off?

Its performance is map dependent, as it practically overperforms in any closed off urban areas. In country maps its next to useless. But all artillery is like that, and some maps favor certain factions or certain spawns.

Yes relic.

Please nerf every OKW strat to counter me blobbing my ridiculous US infantry.

/s

Yes relic.

Please nerf every OKW strat to counter me blobbing my ridiculous US infantry.

/s

I think that no one is complaining here about Stuka's antiblob abilities but how easy is for it to wipe all support weapons whitout chance to retreat.

hi, watch the replays, instant retreat does not, i say again, DOES NOT save squads.

so keeping ear open only lets me know the impending doom.

Who said you have to retreat when a stuka's firing? That's the most stuipd thing you could do. Ever heard of "dodging" a.k.a moving your guys meters away from a position. And avoiding blobbing team-weapons, otherwise they get hammered by the stuka.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW8llISq8GU&list=PLQnCYzupbmdaV_eUUyVXl-ZGGmvJopYAz

At 33:20

Anyone knows what's the armor on that thing?

btw Thunderhun, nice dodge at 36:30

Walking Stuka is pretty insane unit. If you can scout the ambulance and major you can kill pretty much the whole US army with it. That being said I think it's still fine. It's a quite a big investment to make and getting it too early may backfire. I wish Panzerwerfer and Katyusha were a little bit more effective, especially the werfer. Not to even mention Lefh and ML20 which suck so much nowadays.

Anyone knows what's the armor on that thing?

According to TensaiOni's stats page it's 11 so basically nothing.

And avoiding blobbing team-weapons, otherwise they get hammered by the stuka.

Are two AT guns and one hmg protecting them considered as blobbing??

Tell me how can you dodge Stuka's barrages with an ATgun...

Are two AT guns and one hmg protecting them considered as blobbing??

Are they all formed up in a line? Knowing you are up against a faction that has access to Stuka zu Fuss?

Cant maxim spam anymore guys? Lololol next time dont line up your units and if you hear it firing, just move, k?

Cant maxim spam anymore guys? Lololol next time dont line up your units and if you hear it firing, just move, k?

With these kind of comentaries how can you later complain if other players abuse maxis, rifles, T34, etc?

It seems hard to you to understand that even after hearing the Stuka firing, usually it doesn't give enough time to move support weapons away. Stuka's AoE is too big and its damage usually removes from the game everything inside the AoE.

Perhaps you feel that this is balanced because you're butthurt after being maxim-spammed. It would be funny to see what will happen and how the community will rage if the soviet Katyusha did the same damage.

Are they all formed up in a line? Knowing you are up against a faction that has access to Stuka zu Fuss?

Having just a ATgun firing a KingTiger is not enough if you went T3, so I used two ZiS and they were pretty spread from each other at a safe range to at least one of them avoid most of the artillery in the game. But Stuka's barrage AoE is way bigger than I supposed and managed to hit and destroy both ATguns. (It was its first barrage, so i didn't know that a Stuka was in the game)

Even so, tossing away my poor gameplay and strategy, do you really think is balanced that damage output and huge AoE in a fast and mobile artillery unit? Yes, it's expensive, but in teamgames everything is affordable soon or later.

Even so, tossing away my poor gameplay and strategy, do you really think is balanced that damage output and huge AoE in a fast and mobile artillery unit? Yes, it's expensive, but in teamgames everything is affordable soon or later.

Thank you for a reasonable and argumented reply.

I can see how Stuka is more of a problem in team games, but then again, a lot of things are different in team games. I don't really know what to say on the count if it is balanced or fair. I would say I think it performs for cost. If it cannot kill static support crews, what precisely should it do to justify the cost and tier/faction placement?

What else would you have it do? If you reduce its damage or AoE, you are left with a fuel sink noone would ever use in their right mind. Area, non-linear barrage has been suggested and I suppose it could work. But please take a look at the average number of kills a Stuka gets in a game (even team games) and offset it with its costs.

It would be funny to see what will happen and how the community will rage if the soviet Katyusha did the same damage.

fine with me, if you make the katyusha cost 150 fuel and put it in a building with a decent vehicle (something like the puma owk has) an unbelievably niche flak quad with setup that gets it killed most of the time, also let it have the same 2min cd

i actually said that before but i lost games because i got the stuka (which is a huge investment) and my opponent managed to anticipate all of my barrages, save for the first one of course, which basically meant i had spent 100 fuel on some fancy fireworks. i wish i still had those replays... next one will be up here for sure

fine with me, if you make the katyusha cost 150 fuel and put it in a building with a decent vehicle (something like the puma owk has) an unbelievably niche flak quad with setup that gets it killed most of the time, also let it have the same 2min cd

Relic i hope you are listening this GUY GET'S IT!

So Soviets would get 150fuel Katyusha that deals shit loads of damage, i choose angle the rockets hit, has double hp, has better mobility, rockets dropping from top on target(did i miss something?). But wait there's more?

Soviets would get a building with Puma (smoke & retreat, vet1 turrent disable, fast mobile at platform with decent armor) AND anti-infantry halftrack. Thats AI + AT option in one building plus that awesome piece of artillery?

I mean who wouldnt want to trade not so popular su76 and blood boiling su85?

What I will say is: It could be nerfed in a way that makes it so that it only decrews weapons teams.

On the other hand it is still underperforming for its cost i think. Basically only the 2 first shots will ever hit if the enemy has any awareness. And even those are hard to hit if the enemy just waits for the sound and moves everything abit. Its pretty obvious where a german player will target it. And it has 120 seconds CD. If someone would look at the clock, there is no way this thing will ever make its cost back. Honestly, everything except for paks can dodge it Sooooo easy.

I would be so happy if OKW had the moving arty tank instead of the Stuka.

I admit that it might be problematic for noobs and 4v4.

And pls remember that it has 120 seconds CD.

Relic i hope you are listening this GUY GET'S IT!

So Soviets would get 150fuel Katyusha that deals shit loads of damage, i choose angle the rockets hit, has double hp, has better mobility, rockets dropping from top on target(did i miss something?). But wait there's more?

Soviets would get a building with Puma (smoke & retreat, vet1 turrent disable, fast mobile at platform with decent armor) AND anti-infantry halftrack. Thats AI + AT option in one building plus that awesome piece of artillery?

I mean who wouldnt want to trade not so popular su76 and blood boiling su85?

while i GET IT. you obviously dont.