Walking Stuka

The wuhrframen is a specialised AI unit. As many other OKW units is performing better than its counterparts from other factions and it's normal because of the price and because of okw shortages. You hate walking stukas as your oponents hate blobs. Why do you think you deserve to easily blob and win but your opponent is not allowed to have an efficient anti-blob weapon?
People who claim for okw units nerfs are forgeting how mistake punnishing this faction is and about its shortages.
If you want okw units perform as other units from other factions, then the fuel income must be the same as for other factions. But I promise you, you won't like that eather.

if you guys think it's super Op now then you should have seen it during the alpha. It's super toned down right now and is in a pretty reasonable state.

The wuhrframen is a specialised AI unit. As many other OKW units is performing better than its counterparts from other factions and it's normal because of the price and because of okw shortages. You hate walking stukas as your oponents hate blobs. Why do you think you deserve to easily blob and win but your opponent is not allowed to have an efficient anti-blob weapon?
People who claim for okw units nerfs are forgeting how mistake punnishing this faction is and about its shortages.
If you want okw units perform as other units from other factions, then the fuel income must be the same as for other factions. But I promise you, you won't like that eather.

sorry, i have said it before but you choose to ignore it. it is a nuke on demand. it is not a blob killer. it has barely any scatter because of its tiny and convenient impact line and fucks/wipe everything inside it. you say like its a blob killer, like you know what a blob killer is. no it is not. it is a squad wiper. it doesnt have to fire on a blob to be effective, even on a single squad, there's a good chance of wiping it outright.

a katyusha and panzer werfer is a blob killer. it does not wipe squads, but it does fucks an area up, causing tons of damage to a massive blob. it is controlled by scatter and has a wide impact area, so to prevent insta wipe on individual squads, but fucks a blob enough because of the wide space the blob occupies.

and also, you keep saying 2/3 fuel cost. fine you must be prepared to take a hit on the unit stats. like the jadgpanzer, it has to become a point between a stug and panzer4, without forward focused sight and lesser range to compensate. im sure you wouldnt like it either. oh and maybe sturmpioneers comes with mp40s and obersoldaten comes with grenadier's LMG42.

the solution is simple, let it hit a wider area and be affected by scatter. no 2 rockets should hit the same area twice.

the solution is simple, let it hit a wider area and be affected by scatter. no 2 rockets should hit the same area twice.

If we are going the vCoH route (because obviously it must be the best), then i remember it being a lot cheaper than this thing...

Why shouldnt OKW get a cheap, upgradeable 251?

Nerfing Stuka or buffing other artilleries...

Hmmm...

Is there anyway to reduce damage so it doesn´t 1shot support weapons but retaining damage against infantry ?

If we are going the vCoH route (because obviously it must be the best), then i remember it being a lot cheaper than this thing...

Why shouldnt OKW get a cheap, upgradeable 251?

the walking stuka back then came alot later. it was unlocked only at t4. then you need t2 for the building and 120munitions to get it.

was it cheaper? im not sure.

was it cheaper? im not sure.

120 munitions is still a lot cheaper than 100 fuel (obviously the 251 costs something, and OKW is going to tier anyways) but converting fuel to munitions and gaining 120 muni is a lot faster than gaining fuel from a munitions conversion. At least thats how it feels like when i need a panzerfusilier upgrade or schrecks on my volks. And OKW having a regular 251, despite it being even more expensive than Ostheer 251 would be nice...

Was that the question you were asking? I thought Stuka zu Fuß upgrade was also 120 muni.

Decrease the damage vs buildings (No more one shot building wipes). Decrease the range ever so slightly and I think the stuka will be in a good place. What annoys me at the moment is how useless the katy/panzer werfer in comparison to this thing.

120 munitions is still a lot cheaper than 100 fuel (obviously the 251 costs something, and OKW is going to tier anyways) but converting fuel to munitions and gaining 120 muni is a lot faster than gaining fuel from a munitions conversion. At least thats how it feels like when i need a panzerfusilier upgrade or schrecks on my volks. And OKW having a regular 251, despite it being even more expensive than Ostheer 251 would be nice...

Was that the question you were asking? I thought Stuka zu Fuß upgrade was also 120 muni.

no, i was trying to point out getting a stuka out for vcoh was alot more difficult and at a point where armour counters are a possibility, since u will need to unlock t4 1st, before you can get the upgrade. stukas then were already very effective, without the creeping barrage style of bombardment.

similarly, whether 100 fuel or not, stuka here comes too early @ 10mins and too effective for what it does right now. yes 100 fuel is a considerable investment, but consider its counters, medium tanks. t34s are also exposed to a slew of counters when hunting down the stuka and the t34 is also a 100 fuel investment. it is easy to say bring tanks but volks are already upgraded with schrecks and the possibility of mines.

on top of that, 10mins t34 is also pretty early and relatively more risky since either t1 or t2 is needed, and t3 is another 120fuel cost then the unit itself cost 100fuel.

so in that sense, flanking a stuka might not be as easy as saying he has opened himself up to tank counters. hunting a stuka is a very risky move to take. lose that tank and you set urself down by a 100 fuel while stuka can continue to wipe units. delay too long, the stuka would have wiped or killed enough models to pay for itself already and your lines/points would already have crumbled.

no, i was trying to point out getting a stuka out for vcoh was alot more difficult and at a point where armour counters are a possibility, since u will need to unlock t4 1st, before you can get the upgrade. stukas then were already very effective, without the creeping barrage style of bombardment.

similarly, whether 100 fuel or not, stuka here comes too early @ 10mins and too effective for what it does right now. yes 100 fuel is a considerable investment, but consider its counters, medium tanks. t34s are also exposed to a slew of counters when hunting down the stuka and the t34 is also a 100 fuel investment. it is easy to say bring tanks but volks are already upgraded with schrecks and the possibility of mines.

on top of that, 10mins t34 is also pretty early and relatively more risky since either t1 or t2 is needed, and t3 is another 120fuel cost then the unit itself cost 100fuel.

so in that sense, flanking a stuka might not be as easy as saying he has opened himself up to tank counters. hunting a stuka is a very risky move to take. lose that tank and you set urself down by a 100 fuel while stuka can continue to wipe units. delay too long, the stuka would have wiped or killed enough models to pay for itself already and your lines/points would already have crumbled.

I dont know. Relic will probably nerf it to oblivion to keep in mode that all rocket artillery must suck (panzerwerfer not worth it in T4, and katyusha barely tickles the enemy). Meanwhile, the Priest makes the Lefh 18 and ML-20 look like potato launchers. Comparable range, longer barrages, super short cooldowns, mobile and somewhat durable, and spammable. Artillery altogether is screwy in this game.

yea that might happen, so i already gave the best solution. make it the way it is, give it a bigger scatter and take away the creeping barrage bombardment.

im not asking for a nerf to oblivion. what relic is going to do, its totally their decision. the Lefh18 and priest are actually pretty damned good. im getting 40 over kills consistently with the priest.

its only the offmap nukes that are 1 shotting static guns, thats a huge problem, no idea why is hasnt been fixed.

yea that might happen, so i already gave the best solution. make it the way it is, give it a bigger scatter and take away the creeping barrage bombardment.

im not asking for a nerf to oblivion. what relic is going to do, its totally their decision. the Lefh18 and priest are actually pretty damned good. im getting 40 over kills consistently with the priest.

its only the offmap nukes that are 1 shotting static guns, thats a huge problem, no idea why is hasnt been fixed.

If it would be like its secondary incendiary barrage, then by all means. As for all offmaps, they are the biggest offenders of click-wins. If your target cant move, then there is no stopping the barrage that destroys it.

and also, you keep saying 2/3 fuel cost. fine you must be prepared to take a hit on the unit stats. like the jadgpanzer, it has to become a point between a stug and panzer4, without forward focused sight and lesser range to compensate. im sure you wouldnt like it either. oh and maybe sturmpioneers comes with mp40s and obersoldaten comes with grenadier's LMG42.

The Jagdpanzer IV doesn't have focus sight, and costs 60 manpower and 15 fuel more than the SU-85. The StuG costs 110 manpower and 40 fuel less than an SU-85. So why should the Jagdpanzer IV be nerfed down to StuG level but cost more than an SU-85?

The Sturmpioneers cost 320 while Panzergrenadiers cost 340. Both have their pros and cons. Mainly, Sturmpioneers can lay traps and repair, Panzergrenadiers can throw grenades and use Panzerschrecks, they also have a -25% incoming accuracy bonus that Sturmpioneers do not.

stuka is fine
stop bitchin'

its all about timing mr someguy. pgrens come at t2 while sturms comes straight as the 1st unit.

simple, jadgpanzer has an amazing frontal armour comes much earlier than the su85, therefore the premium cost. has barely any teching cost and comes together with the ISG.

im pretty sure jadgpanzer comes default with that focused sight and has no speed penalty. unlike the su85 but im sure u already know that.

If you want okw units perform as other units from other factions, then the fuel income must be the same as for other factions. But I promise you, you won't like that eather.

People keep saying this as if OKW have nothing to compensate for their low fuel income.

Allied fanboys be bitchin' because brainless blobbing/maxim spam vs OKW not viable. And adapting and playing tactically is just too difficult.

Am I the only person who doesn't actually like the Stuka? Even with the ability to place it where you want it's still very RNG how the bombs land, I've seen shells land directly on units and do nothing, other times completely wipe, it is not the be all end all as it isn't reliable damage every time, especially against moving targets.

I'd much rather a Sturmtiger for 60 (ok technically 140) more fuel.

People complaining about the Stuka only see one thing : the impact of the rockets.

Here is what the Stuka actually is :

• - a very expensive rocket artillery
  
• - in a fuel-starved faction (let's not compensate the fuel cost, but rather say it can never be spammed and having a Stuka DOES significantly reduce a player's ability to field armour)
  
• - with the longest cooldown in the game
  
• + has a hard hitting attack
  

If you are on the receiving end here is what you think it is:

• + a rocket artillery that has a hard hitting attack
  

Which is why you want it nerfed. After all, that's what a Stuka is for you. The six rockets falling on your support crews.

What do you want it to be able to do for its cost and faction/tier placement?

Alright - nerf it. Remove its advantage. But better be sure to take away some of those minuses as well.

People complaining about the Stuka only see one thing : the impact of the rockets.

Here is what the Stuka actually is :

• - a very expensive rocket artillery
  
• - in a fuel-starved faction (let's not compensate the fuel cost, but rather say it can never be spammed and having a Stuka DOES significantly reduce a player's ability to field armour)
  
• - with the longest cooldown in the game
  
• + has a hard hitting attack
  

If you are on the receiving end here is what you think it is:

• + a rocket artillery that has a hard hitting attack
  

Which is why you want it nerfed. After all, that's what a Stuka is for you. The six rockets falling on your support crews.

What do you want it to be able to do for its cost and faction/tier placement?

Alright - nerf it. Remove its advantage. But better be sure to take away some of those minuses as well.

there's a major difference between a hard hitting attack and the ability to wipe everything on demand. sure there are times i get lucky and escape with 1 man left or there are times that the rockets miss me due to a small gap in and im saved.

but there are also times where im hit so badly, and instantly losing squads. people defend the stuka only see that

it is their only effective anti support teams/blob weapon, the ISG is just a mortar.
losing it will mean support teams are harder to counter.
it cost 100fuel so it is okay.
it takes a long time to recharge.

what they dont see are

superb mobility, medium tanks will have to really open themselves up to dangers while hunting for the stuka since it can run deeping into its lines after releasing its payload.
other factions do need the support teams to counter their infantry and tanks.
destroys support weapon at times.
almost impossible to retreat from.
teching for stuka counters cost just as much and getting the unit to do so also has an extra cost.
it is the most effective artillery in the game bar none.
OKW effective anti armour options are also available without fuel. racketenwerfer, volks with schrecks and mines.

i also thought it was quite intuitive, after the 1st stuka shot, start preparing for anti armour because they will hunt you down. you can cut a little AI down because you have already invalidated their support teams.