I want to like OKW...
29 Jun 2014, 21:28 PM
#1
Posts: 196
... I really do. The Breakthrough doctrine with its Panzerfüsiliere and almighty Jagdtiger seems especially nice, but... the horrendous income, crappy midgame and lack of a tank that can hit infantry kinda kill the army for me. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong though, so.. any advice?
30 Jun 2014, 06:04 AM
#2
Posts: 76
I for one am having ton of fun with them, they're just very different. I am really enjoying coming up with counters, weak and strong points etc... I don't feel that their mid game is weak at all btw.
You asked a very general question so ill give general tips, use hard counters to what your opponent builds (infared halftrack helps allot here). Don't try to save up for king tiger. Don't meat shield with your expensive infantry. Not losing units is important for all factions but even more so for OKW.
Get arty halftrack or sturmtiger against weapon teams... lol
You asked a very general question so ill give general tips, use hard counters to what your opponent builds (infared halftrack helps allot here). Don't try to save up for king tiger. Don't meat shield with your expensive infantry. Not losing units is important for all factions but even more so for OKW.
Get arty halftrack or sturmtiger against weapon teams... lol
30 Jun 2014, 10:23 AM
#3
Posts: 50
... I really do. The Breakthrough doctrine with its Panzerfüsiliere and almighty Jagdtiger seems especially nice, but... the horrendous income, crappy midgame and lack of a tank that can hit infantry kinda kill the army for me. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong though, so.. any advice?
I think you're doing something wrong. OKW is a powerfull side, but you must manage all of your ressource carefully, and progress through tiers in a methodic way.
Take a look on the corp.shepard "Luftwaffe lockdown BO". He perfectly captured the essence of the OKW :
- T1 : take key location and lockdown with MG34 / sandbags / Medic HQ
- T2 : establish strong defense around your HQ with schrecks / Ratten / Inf hotwiz (even Panzerjag)
- T3 : Map control with Fallshirm / Obersoldaten
- T4 : finish with Panthers / or Koening Tiger for the lulz
The main difficulty in this BO is to resist against inf spam / early M15A1 / Stuart or Maxim / M3 spam, especially on open maps. Construct your Medic HQ on a key point is the most important thing in this BO. U MUST DEFEND IT AT ALL COST ! If you fail at this, you can say "GG". But if you resist the five first minutes of the match, your opponent will have big diffcult to dislodge you, esspecially when the schwere HQ will come !
Schanck !
30 Jun 2014, 11:07 AM
#4
Posts: 40
I think you're doing something wrong. OKW is a powerfull side, but you must manage all of your ressource carefully, and progress through tiers in a methodic way.
Take a look on the corp.shepard "Luftwaffe lockdown BO". He perfectly captured the essence of the OKW :
- T1 : take key location and lockdown with MG34 / sandbags / Medic HQ
- T2 : establish strong defense around your HQ with schrecks / Ratten / Inf hotwiz (even Panzerjag)
- T3 : Map control with Fallshirm / Obersoldaten
- T4 : finish with Panthers / or Koening Tiger for the lulz
The main difficulty in this BO is to resist against inf spam / early M15A1 / Stuart or Maxim / M3 spam, especially on open maps. Construct your Medic HQ on a key point is the most important thing in this BO. U MUST DEFEND IT AT ALL COST ! If you fail at this, you can say "GG". But if you resist the five first minutes of the match, your opponent will have big diffcult to dislodge you, esspecially when the schwere HQ will come !
Try do that against a good soviet player using Soviet Industry doctrine. No way you can hold all those positions. Moreover the russian can easily have both tanks and good ranged weapons. It is just IMPOSSIBLE to win against a soviet with a similar ability. I think I am going to ALT-F4 every game against soviets and I'll return to Ostheer. At least I have pak and and Panzer IV.
30 Jun 2014, 12:12 PM
#5
1 
Posts: 165
A really important questions is, if you are talking about 1vs1 or 2vs2, because in my eyes you play totally different wht OKW in these modes.
In 2vs2 i am doing fine with 3 volx and 1 kübel into JP4 or T3 with stuka.
Like another player mentioned before, dont save for king tiger! Spend it for the hardcounters!
P2 Luchs works perfectly fine vs infantry but can lose again a Flak. You have to earn the experience and the moment you received them you are going to know which build works perfectly in which situation
In 2vs2 i am doing fine with 3 volx and 1 kübel into JP4 or T3 with stuka.
Like another player mentioned before, dont save for king tiger! Spend it for the hardcounters!
P2 Luchs works perfectly fine vs infantry but can lose again a Flak. You have to earn the experience and the moment you received them you are going to know which build works perfectly in which situation
30 Jun 2014, 12:20 PM
#6
Posts: 50
Try do that against a good soviet player using Soviet Industry doctrine. No way you can hold all those positions. Moreover the russian can easily have both tanks and good ranged weapons. It is just IMPOSSIBLE to win against a soviet with a similar ability. I think I am going to ALT-F4 every game against soviets and I'll return to Ostheer. At least I have pak and and Panzer IV.
No, this BO also work against Soviet industry ... but with the Pak43 commander
(yeah, you have to be lucky to have it).
Schanck !
30 Jun 2014, 12:51 PM
#7
Posts: 40
No, this BO also work against Soviet industry ... but with the Pak43 commander
you have to be lucky to have it).
Very, very lucky indeed. In any case I don't like static weapons. It's easy for a soviet to kill pak40 or mortars... it will be easier to kill a Pak43 crew.
By the way, as StaroftheWar said, there are many differences between 1v1 and 2v2. Mabye in a 2v2 you still have some possibilities. 1v1 seems to be harder for OKW.
30 Jun 2014, 16:42 PM
#8
Posts: 196
Some good replies, thanks a lot.
I have no idea how to counter a lot of stuff though, like units in buildings, snipers, M3s... and you can absolutely not afford to lose units that cost fuel.
And once the enemy gets their T-34/Sherman-spam going, I'm in trouble. Plus, if they can shut down my infantry early, for example with M15A1 or M20 or lots of BARs, well, then I'm fucked right there.
I have no idea how to counter a lot of stuff though, like units in buildings, snipers, M3s... and you can absolutely not afford to lose units that cost fuel.
And once the enemy gets their T-34/Sherman-spam going, I'm in trouble. Plus, if they can shut down my infantry early, for example with M15A1 or M20 or lots of BARs, well, then I'm fucked right there.
30 Jun 2014, 16:45 PM
#9
Posts: 1225
OKW in so many words...is pretty weak right now. It is extremely unforgiving to play, to the point were even in 2v2 losing just one fuel-intensive unit will typically cost you the game. Nondoctrinal units for lategame, hard AT are seriously underwhelming, especially the Panther, which has a hard time against T34/85s and Sluggers, and is dominated by the IS-2. The Jagdtiger only has any real utility on open maps, which is why OKW in my experience tends to inevitably lose in long games, despite the snowballing vet. That being said, some of OKWs individual units are superb and indeed possibly OP, (Stuka in comparison to Katyusha/Pwerfer..is really no comparison) but the synergies just aren't really there.
And god help you if you are facing a competent Soviet T1 player.
And god help you if you are facing a competent Soviet T1 player.
30 Jun 2014, 18:58 PM
#10
Posts: 39
I'm having a lot of trouble mid into early late game. The OKW infantry lose their advantage pretty quick, the kubel is made of tissue paper and the volks feel ineffective in general. The 7.5cm ISG has terrible splash against support weapons (maxim, mortar) - that all adds up to pretty tough sledding in the mid game with a LOT of micro to just keep your head above water.
The early game sturms are almost too powerful with the 44s, but very effective at getting early map control, I just cant turn that advantage into anything useful. By the time you get to the puma, its too late as the US or Russian medium/heavy armor is already on the field, so maybe I should shoot for the jagdpanzer T2 and a flak in T3 and give that a go.
really frustrating faction for me right now, defeat from the jaws of victory on all my games.
The early game sturms are almost too powerful with the 44s, but very effective at getting early map control, I just cant turn that advantage into anything useful. By the time you get to the puma, its too late as the US or Russian medium/heavy armor is already on the field, so maybe I should shoot for the jagdpanzer T2 and a flak in T3 and give that a go.
really frustrating faction for me right now, defeat from the jaws of victory on all my games.
30 Jun 2014, 19:35 PM
#11
Posts: 40
I completely agree with LeYawn and Lateralus
30 Jun 2014, 21:55 PM
#12
Posts: 196
The early game sturms are almost too powerful with the 44s, but very effective at getting early map control, I just cant turn that advantage into anything useful. By the time you get to the puma, its too late as the US or Russian medium/heavy armor is already on the field, so maybe I should shoot for the jagdpanzer T2 and a flak in T3 and give that a go.
I think this is largely due to the income penalty. Map control is just not worth as much for OKW since you gain 33% less munitions and fuel.
Maybe agressively pushing for the enemy cutoffs, or at least harassing it constantly, would be an option?
30 Jun 2014, 22:38 PM
#13
Posts: 40
I think this is largely due to the income penalty. Map control is just not worth as much for OKW since you gain 33% less munitions and fuel.
Maybe agressively pushing for the enemy cutoffs, or at least harassing it constantly, would be an option?
Any Ally player who play against OKW knows it and he/she will keep at least a fuel in order to have vehicles or tanks as soon as possible.
1 Jul 2014, 01:49 AM
#14
Posts: 1384
I feel like the way to play OKW is to minimize capping in favour of early harassment with storm pios and kubel wagons. You can decap your opponents stuff, which will hurt him greatly. And you'll likely inflict heavy MP losses.
I haven't played against Soviets yet though. It works great on Americans.
EDIT:
Here's a replay of a build I'm working on that demonstrates this.
I haven't played against Soviets yet though. It works great on Americans.
EDIT:
Here's a replay of a build I'm working on that demonstrates this.
1 Jul 2014, 02:57 AM
#15
Posts: 196
Hey Dullahan, I just watched that replay and commented on it.
I'd post my own replay, but honestly, I made some really stupid mistakes and my enemy wasn't a genius either it seems, so I imagine its value is rather limited
I'd post my own replay, but honestly, I made some really stupid mistakes and my enemy wasn't a genius either it seems, so I imagine its value is rather limited
1 Jul 2014, 04:24 AM
#16
Posts: 1384
Here's another replay of the strategy, this time against a Soviet player.
SturmTigerSage6
1 Jul 2014, 19:17 PM
#17
Posts: 40
I feel like the way to play OKW is to minimize capping in favour of early harassment with storm pios and kubel wagons. You can decap your opponents stuff, which will hurt him greatly. And you'll likely inflict heavy MP losses.
I haven't played against Soviets yet though. It works great on Americans.
EDIT:
Here's a replay of a build I'm working on that demonstrates this.
I didn't watch the replays but your strat seems pretty interesting... a change of mentality could be needed.
1 Jul 2014, 20:19 PM
#18
Posts: 196
I've started thinking of Volksgrenadiers as more of a fire-support and capping squad than real frontline infantry. Let the Sturms and Kübels do the fighting, use the Volks as meatshields and some extra DPS when needed.. that's how I think of OKW early-game at the moment.
1 Jul 2014, 20:38 PM
#19
Posts: 1384
Yeah volks aren't a frontline squad, not until high vet anyway.
1 Jul 2014, 21:05 PM
#20
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
It's always interesting seeing differences in play styles and the way that people view the game. I've always viewed okw as being very defensive and in it for the long game. I think both styles are valid but I just can't see myself playing okw aggressively. I'll stick to my puma build for a while
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