Dealing with volley fire

So you sit in suppression...what the benefit in that? Your unit has no damage, and will stay suppressed as long as the RE squad continues firing on it.

You don't retreat and give up the map control.

It's simple. One squad gets volley fired. Nearby squads move into cover ready to kill the echelon guys when volley fire wears off. If you're in green cover, it takes so long to be suppressed by VF that you won't be pinned, and suppression wears off quicker than machine guns. Panicking and retreating just because you're suppressed is a noob move.

You don't retreat and give up the map control.

It's simple. One squad gets volley fired. Nearby squads move into cover ready to kill the echelon guys when volley fire wears off. If you're in green cover, it takes so long to be suppressed by VF that you won't be pinned, and suppression wears off quicker than machine guns. Panicking and retreating just because you're suppressed is a noob move.

And if he has rifleman to support? What if he catches both of your squads together in the open? Should a 20 munition ability from your 160 manpower squad really be able to suppress multiple squads from any direction while on the move in the early game? Just watch all the games from todays WFA tourney, they should be up tomorrow. The USF DOMINATED every single one, just watch how volley fire is used and get back to me, maybe we're all missing something.

And if he has rifleman to support? What if he catches both of your squads together in the open? Should a 20 munition ability from your 160 manpower squad really be able to suppress multiple squads from any direction while on the move in the early game? Just watch all the games from todays WFA tourney, they should be up tomorrow. The USF DOMINATED every single one, just watch how volley fire is used and get back to me, maybe we're all missing something.

Should a 30 munition mine instagib squads/vehicles if you happen to run over it?

I'm not saying the ability couldn't use some tweaks and bugfixes,but I wouldn't change it drastically. Just reduce the rate of courage damage slightly so that it has a harder time of suppressing.

Should a 30 munition mine instagib squads/vehicles if you happen to run over it?

I'm not saying the ability couldn't use some tweaks and bugfixes,but I wouldn't change it drastically. Just reduce the rate of courage damage slightly so that it has a harder time of suppressing.

Apples and oranges man. All factions have access to mines in one way or another, and their effectiveness can be limited by purchasing a minesweeper.

How is my suggestion that far off from what you call a "tweak"? I'm not calling for the ability to be nerfed into uselessness. I like that it gives the RE some early game combat potential, I just think its grossly over the top at the moment. Limiting the suppression to one squad and forcing the RE squad to remain stationary would still punish advancing units, and would encourage the ability to be used as intended which is to suppress a high priority target like the sturmpios in the early game, rather than being able to suppress multiple units.

Volley fire needs to be toned down a little, but I think the bigger issue is how it fits into the USF as a whole. It turns the super cheap T0 engineer unit into an early game monster, in an already strong early game faction. That coupled with the AA halftrack really puts the USF over the top atm.

How is my suggestion that far off from what you call a "tweak"? I'm not calling for the ability to be nerfed into uselessness. I like that it gives the RE some early game combat potential, I just think its grossly over the top at the moment. Limiting the suppression to one squad and forcing the RE squad to remain stationary would still punish advancing units, and would encourage the ability to be used as intended which is to suppress a high priority target like the sturmpios in the early game, rather than being able to suppress multiple units.

Volleyfire is Americans answer to early game blobs, because they don't have a suppression team until lieutenant tech. Only being effective against one squad means that it becomes a sturmpio/pgren pinning tool.

Additionally, making them immobile allows people to just focus fire them from range and then walk away if they toggle the ability. It will go from "useful" to "never used except when your opponent isn't paying attention".

You're essentially suggesting to completely change the utility of the ability. I'm just suggesting making it take a few more shots to suppress so people have time to walk into cover, garrison buildings or just kill the RE outright with focus fire.

Volleyfire is Americans answer to early game blobs, because they don't have a suppression team until lieutenant tech. Only being effective against one squad means that it becomes a sturmpio/pgren pinning tool.

Additionally, making them immobile allows people to just focus fire them from range and then walk away if they toggle the ability. It will go from "useful" to "never used except when your opponent isn't paying attention".

You're essentially suggesting to completely change the utility of the ability. I'm just suggesting making it take a few more shots to suppress so people have time to walk into cover, garrison buildings or just kill the RE outright with focus fire.

What exactly is an early game blob? 3 units? You can get an AA halftrack at ~5:30 and that thing absolutely shits on all infantry. It is highly mobile and suppresses on the move. Besides, how is a 160 MP Rear ecehlon squad pinning a far more dangerous and expensive sturmpio squad not useful? Your suggesting that the ability should be able to instasuppress MORE than a sturmpio squad? Grens and volks can't step to rifleman as it is.

Additionally, making them immobile allows people to just focus fire them from range and then walk away if they toggle the ability. It will go from "useful" to "never used except when your opponent isn't paying attention".

So giving the USF opponent a micro intensive counter isn't acceptable? The ability has to function the same regardless of circumstance and opponents awareness? That is the definition of an "I WIN" button.

Yes, I am suggesting to change the function of the ability. ATM it's a no brainer. You can use it on the move, you can use it against multiple squads, you can use it against squads in cover, the result is essentially the same. I'm suggesting that it be used in conjunction w/ a supporting rifle squad to punish an advance or secure your own. It would still be extremely useful while allowing enemy units to kite the ability if they spot it activated soon enough.

You also conveniently chose to ignore my point about how the ability fits into the faction as a whole. I don't think that VF needs to be turned into a useless ability. Being able to supress a high value target during a skirmish is valuable under any circumstance. Compare this to the soviet CE whose only role is to tech, repair vehicles, and lay mines. I like its early game potential, and it also scales with upgrades as well, as it gives a ROF bonus and this used with a weapon upgrade like the BAR or browning can do some serious work, especially considering the RE becomes a 5 man squad at vet 2.

Yeah I have been countering the RE volley fire ability in a few ways including:

• Use cover.
  
• Use Kubel to counter supress/pin the RE squad.
  
• Use Sturmpioneer squad to effectively bait the volley fire ability. Most players tend to save the volley fire ability for when they see Sturmpioneers. Keep your pioneers in cover or within a 1 second walking range to a shotblocker or building. With their ability on cooldown you have a greater chance to be aggresive if you see the chance.
  

This ability has to be addressed though as I find it more damaging, efficient and reliable than throwing a grenade. I thinkt he best way to address it is make it like the CoH1 PG G43 supression ability, where you can only target a single unit and the moment you move the ability ceases.

I hated it at first, and I still think it's a little too fast acting, but when I see an unsupported Rear Echlon unit use volley fire on one of my units, I begin to salivate. It does basically no damage, but leaves them wide open to be flanked and massacred by a supporting gren or assault gren squad.

I hated it at first, and I still think it's a little too fast acting, but when I see an unsupported Rear Echlon unit use volley fire on one of my units, I begin to salivate. It does basically no damage, but leaves them wide open to be flanked and massacred by a supporting gren or assault gren squad.

I don't see how you can flank them because they can just suppress the other squad too.

After playing a bit more against it, I think it'd be useful if it was more obvious when volley fire was in effect. Once the text disappears there's no way to tell.

After playing a bit more against it, I think it'd be useful if it was more obvious when volley fire was in effect. Once the text disappears there's no way to tell.

This is a good point, especially considering the effect is the most potent at the end of its duration. Having an icon over the squad for the entire length of the ability would take some of the guess work out of when you can reengage.

BTW Nice games today

I don't see how you can flank them because they can just suppress the other squad too.

I honestly haven't noticed a Rear Echelon squad suppress another squad yet when it's coming in from the side or rear and the Rear Echelons are already volley firing against someone else. Lucky RNG, perhaps. I have noticed it when another unit is coming in to join the fray from the front, though.

I honestly haven't noticed a Rear Echelon squad suppress another squad yet when it's coming in from the side or rear and the Rear Echelons are already volley firing against someone else. Lucky RNG, perhaps. I have noticed it when another unit is coming in to join the fray from the front, though.

It's not RNG, it just depends on whether your opponent is savvy enough to tell the Rear Echelon to suppress multiple squads.

Do you guys think they will Nerf it, or at least change it from its current form?

They should only suppress on close range, they got rifles after all not machineguns. Secondly it should only suppress and never pin. Thirdly the muni cost needs to be atleast 30 and only able to target one squad.

The biggest issues with it right now I feel are:

-No clear indicator. Need to know exactly when it wears off. (Maybe even decrease the duration slightly.)
-Affects weapon rack pick ups. This causes it to become insanely broken. Either with rapid fire bazookas or super instapin with bars/mg's.


I'm okay with it suppressing multiple squads because if you get caught out you deserve it. You should know to keep cover in between you and RE squads, or use line of sight to make them waste it.

I'm fairly certain that volley fire was intended to counteract the mini-pgrens from OKW. Any changes made should be undertaken with absolute care in order to prevent the early game sturmpio-shitstorm.

What are people's experiences with them post-patch? I've only faced a Soviet player thus far.

its been nerfed into oblivion. first off they reduced its effectiveness by half and added a 50% accuracy penalty. so only half the shots hit when active. and those shots that do hit only do half the suppression. so unless the unit is standing out in open cover and not doing anything it will take about 10-15 seconds to suppress. and if they are in cover it will never suppress.

Update

the above statement was wrong. Someone pointed out to me that it wasn't that the squad got an accuracy penalty. I should have said that units firing on the squad using volley fire got a 50% bonus when shooting at the squad.

so that was why your squad would just die in seconds when the ability was activated, because everyone shooting at them was getting 50% more hits in on them .

Volley fire is useless now.

I'm sure glad that is settled. I was getting tired of being able to compete with early game Sturm Pios.