Does the Zis really need barrage?

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 17:25 PMAbdul

It's situational, but often your grens cant walk straight in front of it and its support because they get suppressed by a FLANKABLE MAXIM for example, while the zis barrages support weapons and fights off scout cars and tanks. So the maxim and 60 muni barrage is giving it a Combined arms role.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 15:43 PMBurts

yes it does, it's an artirelly piece.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 17:28 PMDanielD

Abdul, lots of units can do more than one thing. It's not a bad thing. 60 munitions is not cheap considering how easy to dodge the barrage is. The Zis makes up for its mediocre anti tank with some optional anti inf, seems fair to me.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 17:44 PMpantherswag

ZiS trades mid game performance with it's barrage for late game viability with reduced RoF and Target Weakpoint. It's asymmetric balance. Same reason that Grens have a non-doctrinal weapons upgrade and Cons don't.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 18:55 PMpigsoup

love how you repeat bad game design, bad mechanic, bad game design, bad mechanic like it's agreed upon by everybody. zis barrage seems ok to me and doesnt feel like a bad mechanic. and referring zis as one unit army is too much of a hyperbole.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 19:14 PMAerohank

ZIS3 gun is a one man army. It can deal with everything on its own with his AP and HE rounds. All it needs is some support from some maxims to deal with flanking infantry, some guards or mines to disable tanks so they don't move out of the cone, some conscripts or an M3 for reinforcement, and a T34 or something to deal with the infantry that are not killed by the extremely hard to dodge non-tracking barrage.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 19:53 PMAbdul

hey man, you are still bitter about that one game?

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 19:58 PMAerohank

What game?

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 20:01 PMAbdul

the rails and metal game with elpandie where I flanked your SUs and you got so mad you quite on your mate. Boy, you sound so similar in that post.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 19:52 PMAbdul

quote where I say that

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 20:18 PMKreatiir

Doesn't sound like Hank.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 20:21 PMpigsoup

post #13,14, strongly implied in 44, and generally implied in all your posts. also lovvvvvce how most people on this thread are giving you perfectly valid counter arguments to your original post but in reply, you just go back to the same thing you said on your first post. everybody's just wrong and you are the only one who sees the truth, what's right and what's wrong, and what the game is supposed to be.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 20:01 PMAbdul

the rails and metal game with elpandie where I flanked your SUs and you got so mad you quite on your mate. Boy, you sound so similar in that post.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 20:51 PMDanielD

Abdul you still haven't explained WHY the barrage is a bad ability to have on the unit. As others have said, it is 60muni, which is a lot, and it is easy to dodge. It has its uses though, and adds an interesting element to soviet play.

Jump back to quoted post3 Jun 2014, 15:35 PMAbdul

I keep seeing the Zis being sent in front of an mg42 or mortar squad and start firing its barrage forcing that unit to retreat. The way its being used like that reminds me of the maxim at the beginning of the game.

Back then you could send it into the fog of war, find a deployed mg42 and manage to suppress it first. That was bad game play and I kind of see a similar thing happening with the Zis where it's being sent solo to take down a deployed support unit.

This makes me wonder what was the developers' original purpose for the barrage ability? Do they consider what I describe above proper and balanced role for this ability?